My friend over at Kink In Exile, has recently posted a fantastic list of 8 things dominant women want. The list is so spot-on that I think it is a must-read regardless of whether you are in or are looking for a kinky relationship or not—or even if you’re not even “into all this kink stuff.”
I’ve been struggling to write more in this space lately. I want to, but between having to deal with the stress of moving to New York City from Sydney in less than two weeks and, more recently, the stress of losing my relationship with (Sara) Eileen, most kinds of words seem beyond me right now. Naturally, reading over a list of the things dominant women want during this time triggers a certain amount of introspection.
Kink in Exile’s list is so good, actually, if it were not unspeakably lazy of me I would want to copy it in its entirety for a post of my own. Instead of plagiarism, however, here’s a companion list of the things that submissive men want from a dominant partner that I think might be helpful. Astute readers of both my post and hers will note how similar these two lists actually are in content if not in voice. That, of course, is no coincidence.
For the sake of clarity, I’ll preface this list with an explicit remark about how it’s not intended to reflect anything other than a generic exploration into what I believe submissive men want from dominant partners, and should therefore not be interpreted without salting to your own taste, so to speak. I’d also like to acknowledge the excellent pre-publication input I received on this post by Kink in Exile herself, ironrose, as well as a few more friends. Thank you all for your thoughts.
You act upon details
Everyone’s fantasies—and demons—are in the details. Specific words, intonation, materials used in play (e.g., hemp rope versus metal bondage), and other things all have different meanings to different people. Personally, for instance, I react badly to words I associate with worthlessness (like “pathetic”) but favorably to others (like “whore” or “slut”) that I associate with wanton sexuality. While I am not alone in these particulars, there are others who respond in their own, unique ways.
It’s important to understand what these details are before you access them, but it’s equally important to eventually access them; ignoring such details is tantamount to ignoring me. When I play with a partner, a sense of depth and meaning is literally impossible to achieve if I have not first talked (usually at some length) about the details of my desires and fears, and asked questions of my partner to understand the details of theirs.
You need to be consistently inviting these details into our talks and our play; merely acknowledging their presence—without acting upon them later—is not enough. I do not believe a meaningful relationship can be built without successfully interfacing over these details.
You treat me as an equal person first and a submissive partner second
I am not a doormat—no submissive man is (even the ones that say they are). I see both dominance and submission as requiring equality first and power play second, and you should too. Moreover, you need to not only recognize but articulate the distinction in your actions when you demand something versus assertively request something of me.
My submission is a vital facet of who I am, so you never act in ways that are disingenuous, exploitative, or demeaning of my submissive sexuality, nor do you suggest that innate parts of who we are or the situations in which we exist (such as orientation, race, spiritual beliefs, socioeconomic status, or other external influences in our lives) make us unequal beings in any way. You strive towards fairness in all your dealings and recognize that our different wants and needs means that the goal of such efforts is equivalency, not sameness.
You can distinguish fantasy from reality, and objective reality from subjective interpretation
You understand how to live out a fantasy without living in a fantasy. This doesn’t mean so-called “24/7″ situations are unacceptable, because even in more casual relationships you need to be able to intelligently distinguish between playtimes and other times. Using protocols or any “lifestyle” behaviors as barriers to communication is not okay, so you must be adept at sussing out problems between us as well as vigilant in and receptive to addressing them.
You understand the difference between entitlement and advantage; you recognize the advantages you have that I may not share, but do not feel as though you are somehow more deserving of them. In reality, you do not consider yourself entitled to my submission or acts thereof. In fantasy and play, however, you are not afraid of asserting such behavior.
It’s also important that you remain aware of and empathetic to concerns I raise and act with consideration toward them both inside and outside of play. It helps if you also expect the same from me—don’t be surprised at my vehemence in encouraging your comfort and pleasure because doing so is a pursuit of my own happiness. Part of that pursuit is making the effort to build a common understanding of things between us, and I need you to make an effort to refine this understanding with me over time. Doing so will make it possible to interact with me as a dominant partner, a top, and a friend, all of which you need to be able to do.
You know and make your own desires clear
You are knowledgeable about yourself and communicate what you know openly, honestly, and freely. You needn’t be divinely enlightened but you do need to have a solid understanding of something you like and be assertive in asking for it. You must have actively pursued explorations into your own desires, or are at least actively pursuing them with me; your sense of self must be strong enough to weather discoveries of new desires in yourself and in me over time.
Being eager to often try new things (in terms of play specifically and in general) is also important because it tells me that you are interested in learning more about yourself, more about me, and more about how we work together in all of the ways that we do. You delight in novelty and discovery; you “know thyself,” and you share who you are with me—I think it’s sexy. Moreover, you encourage me to do the same because when I share who I am with you, it’s out of a desire for you to reciprocate.
You are confident and independent in your dominance
Your dominance cannot be your dirty little secret; my submission isn’t mine. You may be excited by taboo but you don’t rely on it to provide enjoyment (because very little is taboo with me). This does not mean that our play can’t be respectful of public boundaries; it means that you know wanting to see me in physical pain is not wrong or sick, and you know that my desire for such experiences is similarly not unhealthy. You enjoy challenging both my physical and mental endurance but are not out to inflate your ego by causing mine harm.
You are an independent, whole person and you celebrate your dominance as a piece of that whole. You are not dependent on my submission to validate your dominance. You appreciate the support and encouragement I provide and are self-sufficient enough not to need it at all times, self-empowered enough not to want it at all times. You do not need constant reassurance that basic aspects of our kinky sexuality are acceptable behaviors (e.g., “normal”).
You must be comfortable discussing and acting upon your own sadism, desire to receive service, or other potentially socially unacceptable traits for us to have fulfilling interactions (because I am similarly not always socially acceptable). Moreover, you need to have and be constantly developing a sense of your own skills so that you know what you can and can’t realistically and safely do. Feeling insulted or offended if I point out the realities of your potential shortcomings in these areas should be a warning sign to you—I do so because I want us both to become better at what we are doing.
You value my input and experiences
You reject the notion that my sexual submission negates the validity of my opinions and beliefs. You know that dominance does not equal superiority, and therefore you are willing and able to reexamine aspects of yourself. You solicit and incorporate input and feedback from me in doing this because you know that my perspective and experiences are valuable. You want our relationship—whatever form our relationship takes—to grow, our intimacy to deepen and you don’t expect this to happen without expending your own energy to help make it so.
You make me a priority and will treat me to indulgences
My submission doesn’t make me more willing to abandon my wants or needs than people who aren’t submissive are, just as your dominance doesn’t make you more entitled to have yours met. You know this and therefore make me the same kind of priority that I have made you. You make time to see me, play with me, and occasionally treat me to indulgences you know I like because you enjoy seeing me be happy.
Being dominant does not mean you get to do what you want whenever you want. Your dominance doesn’t free you of the obligation to treat me with consideration or respect, to dismiss my desires or concerns, or to unfairly prioritize your own wants over mine. This doesn’t mean that I feel inappropriately entitled or deserving of the things I want, and you must not resent me for having these needs or for filling them. Additionally, you are emotionally intelligent enough not to feel guilty or personally at fault when you can’t fulfill them for whatever reason, are communicative enough to speak frankly with me when such clashes arise (because they will), and trusting enough to believe me when I say I’m doing my best to resolve the situation.
Your dominance is personally meaningful
Being sexually submissive is just one facet of who I am. You desire to dominate me because my presentation of self—all of it—is personally attractive to you. You recognize my strength and power as well as my vulnerability and are aroused by both aspects of who I am.
You do not treat me as a replaceable object (out of a fantasy scenario) or as though I am a dime-a-dozen, cookie-cutter submissive man. You understand that our D/s relationship is about the relationship and the power dynamic, not the activities or toys or clothing; I am not a random man that will clean your house for free, and you are sensitive to the fact that any expectation of either this or similar depersonalization will feel exploitative and insulting.
You should feel just as eager to dominate me whether or not you are dressed in fetish gear, wearing makeup, are at a club with an audience, or have a particular toy handy. None of these things matter to me in terms of our connection during play because I desire you, not your image. You should not feel the need to conform to stereotypes you see in pornography, and you must not expect me to do that, either (because I won’t).
To submissive men, I want to say that many—if not all—of these things apply to you as well. Knowledge of yourself, self-acceptance, and confidence in your submission is not just healthy, it’s what makes you attractive to dominant partners (especially the intelligent, sexy ones). If you don’t think your own submission is sexy, how can you expect anyone else to?
Two things-
First, I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your relationship. I suck at saying things that actually make people feel better in situations like this, but if you want to talk or need someone to listen, you know where to find me.
Second, you say things that I never know how to put into words. Or the things that I do put into words, you say them with so much more clarity and meaning. Specifically, the first paragraph under “You make me a priority and will treat me to indulgences” is wonderful. Lots of people in bdsm would consider that heresy, but I agree wholeheartedly.
Acting on the details struck me. I wrote a post about how well it can work and what it’s meant to me.
I really liked your post, MsSns. Especially these bits:
I think that’s a great illustration of the “acting on the details” point combined with what roo-roo pointed out. Why do people somehow believe that because I am submissive the things that I tell you I want are the things you should not do with me? That makes about as much sense as offering you free money that you don’t take because you think not taking it will somehow fatten your wallet. It just seems totally nuts to me, and the fact that (as roo-roo says), pointing this out is tantamount to heresy in the BDSM world is even more nuts.
Thanks, that’s pretty much the point I was making. Glad you enjoyed.
Excellent!
Thank you for expressing yourself so well. You’ve successfully captured what I’ve been trying to find in the way of words to explain what I desire, require, in this form of relationship.
Again, thank you.
BRAVO to your list! Refreshingly candid, forthright and pretty much SPOT ON as far as I’m concerned and as these relate to my own personal way of embracing and living my life as a Dominant and Sadist who nurtures those I love as my own.
@MsSnS, sevitor, Domina DeManda: Thank you all very much for your kind words on this post. Thank you even more for saying them publicly in the comments, right here! I sincerely hoped when I wrote this that I was not largely alone in these (common sense) desires, and am always extremely happy to see evidence of the fact that I’m not. So again, thanks for your comments.
Word. Seems to apply equally to subs/doms of all genders, IMO… This is pretty much everything I would want to say to a new dominant partner!
What a great list – this one as well as the one Kink in Exile wrote. I plan on saving them to use for reference with any future relationships. Great blog, you have a new fan!
Maybe this comment will be posted and maybe it won’t (I don’t know if you screen them)…. but I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and I just wanted to say that I’m totally hot for you.
The ending of a relationship is always sad, but one of the things that cheers me up (even if I’m not interested in the person, or not interested at the time) is hearing that I’m desirable to someone else. I desire you. Anonymously (I’m not that brave today).
That is both very true, and the sentiment very appreciated. So, whoever you are, thank you for the smile. :)
[...] that is an interesting thing. Jos points out this great post by May about the things submissive men want, one of which [...]
For a submissive man, you sure have many demands for equality and respect from the ladies, and it seems a strong emphasis on Femdom D/s being a mere phantasy. For my part, I find the more real part of Femdom alluring. In my relationship, I found happiness being the sub to my Queen, who now feels entitled, and obey, even when I don’t want to. I enjoy your many websites and comments, though.
@Lovecutefeet:
I don’t see why my being a submissive man should mean I demand any less equality or respect from ladies than any other kind of man would.
My issues with the way most submissive men treat their D/s relationships is centered around exactly this absurdist idea that one part of Femdom is “the more real part” over others. I think it’s destructive and unhealthy, but far be it from me not to let hordes of others enjoy themselves as they will. Is it so much to ask that I be given the same opportunity? Right now, with this culture’s monopolist iconography about what “Femdom” is, neither myself nor scores of dominant women have that opportunity.
Lovecutefeet’s response hits a sore spot for me, and I might be out of line for commenting on this, but I have to get it off my chest. Identifying as submissive shouldn’t mean negating self-identity to the point of ignoring equality or respect as basic human rights. Choose to act upon your needs as you desire, but don’t disparage others whose needs – though similar – will fundamentally differ because of their own experiences and desires.
I don’t think your comment is out of line at all, Sigrid. I think it’s exactly in line with the point of not just this post or my entire blog, but is at the root of most of my discontent and bitterness. To be blunt, if my understanding of Lovecutefeet’s position is correct, I think the notion that sexual submissiveness (regardless of gender) forfeits equality is nothing short of evil, the same kind of evil that conservative fearmongering produces, only with different symptoms and different manifestations.
So, thank you for saying your piece.
And now you know why I love your blog. Because you just make such sense to me.
Living out a fantasy without living in a fantasy- very well written and a good point. You do have a way with words! It is really a pleasure to read your posts.
Thank you for this blog. I’ve never even ventured close fem dominance before, but over the last few months have developed a very intense cyber relationship with a man in a very physical and mentally stressful situation. I’m not sure whether he understood that he was a submissive bi-male but that’s the way it’s developed. He gives me indications that I build on and I discovered how much I liked the role he gave me and how intuitive I am.
Anyway, I’m still exploring and looking for ways to make him comfortable in his skin…me too I might add.
Christina
:) I’m glad you’re finding this list helpful, Christina.
I think many men who are submissively inclined are unaware of what that means. They might think it is bad or wrong, but these are not truths, these are just judgments. If you liked this post, you and/or your new partner might also like MaleSubmissionArt.com. You can read a bit more about that site on my post introducing the idea, called “Why I’m crowdsourcing my own pornography”.
James, thanks for the kind words.
MM, I like this post a lot, and my initial reaction to LoveCuteFeet’s post is the same as yours. But I also think…ehh…most of what you are saying in the OP is that the basic elements of human communication, negotiation, and decency are retained inside a D/s relationship. As they should be everywhere else. Great, I’m loving that.
But by making this specifically about submissive men, and kind of implying that this is what _all_ submissive men want, I see how someone like LCF can get the message that you are telling his fantasy is “wrong.” And that message is too blunt for my taste. I would buy that LCF’s fantasies are unlikely to help him find love, even unlikely to get him laid. I would even say that guys like LCF make it difficult for everyone else to find love and/or get laid, because of the noise factor. Which frustrating… But that’s different than suggesting he’s not really a submissive because his fantasies are too impractical. Maybe.
@Orlando_C:
I don’t recall saying anything like that. I don’t care what people’s fantasies are if I’m not playing with them. However, I do care how other people act in the world and if they act from a place of fantasy instead of from a place of reality, I think they are doing themselves and the rest of the world a grave disservice. And I think Lovecutefeet’s actions are a perfect example of exactly such disservice. That doesn’t have anything to do with how submissive or not he is, just as this post doesn’t really have anything to do with submissiveness or dominance when all is said and done.
Well, clearly you aren’t saying anything about LCF in the OP, but he shows up here anyway with his knickers in a twist. And my guess is the knicker-twisting moment, for him, is that you’ve titled the post “8 things submissive men want…” and he’s a submissive man and he doesn’t want those things, and to generalize we could say that what he wants is a fuckload more impractical than what you (or I) want. (And yes, I agree that its a disservice to everyone.)
:) Good point, Orlando. And mine is: if you want a make an omlette, you gotta break a couple eggs. I’ve got no bones about breaking his eggs if that’s the way he’s choosing to read my writing.
See, now you’re playing into his hands. Now he gets his eggs broken, which is what he’s after in the first place…
I am truly and thoroughly impressed. This is one of the very few insightful and meaningful articles I have read on the subject of male submission. Being a submissive man myself, I wanted to rise up and applaud this post. Really, really great piece of writing on the subject.
Thanks, Ritwik. As usual, thanks even more for adding your voice to the crowd. We need more such voices.
As a young woman who identifies as dominant and is currently searching for a relationship with a submissive man, I’m grateful that you wrote this list. It may be common sense, but sometimes common sense needs attention drawn to it, to remind people of what’s right and important. A D/s relationship is no different from any other, in terms of the basics–people who love each other, who want to make each other happy, who treat each other as equals in truth if not in play. People who want the same things every other lover on the planet wants–love and respect.
I’ve struggled with self-esteem issues in the past, and I still am, and they’ve prevented me from seeking out what I need. I’ve never been in a romantic relationship, out of fear that I’m not “good enough” in some way. Now I know that’s not true, no matter how much I think it is, and my dominance is a source of confidence for me that I never had before. I’d just like to thank you, and all the other sane submissives in the world, for encouraging that confidence, for loving it and wanting it. Here’s to finding one of my own!
[...] people find it fun to play by rules where one person gets to make decisions and the other person, only if they agree to it, will follow the [...]