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	<title>Comments on: BDSM versus Kink: Nobody but your sex partner cares how you fuck</title>
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	<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/</link>
	<description>Maymay&#039;s pursuit of life, liberty, and sexual freedom.</description>
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		<title>By: Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed &#8250; The Salvation Army incites personal attacks against me; a blog reply</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-32282</link>
		<dc:creator>Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed &#8250; The Salvation Army incites personal attacks against me; a blog reply</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-32282</guid>
		<description>[...] reality, I have personally loudly spoken out that the goal of KinkForAll events should never be specific to an acceptance of bondage, discipline [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reality, I have personally loudly spoken out that the goal of KinkForAll events should never be specific to an acceptance of bondage, discipline [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Can You Separate BDSM and Sex? &#124; Submissive Guide</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-25132</link>
		<dc:creator>Can You Separate BDSM and Sex? &#124; Submissive Guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-25132</guid>
		<description>[...] on BDSM and SexOur chat discussion transcript from 8/25/09 on this very topicIs BDSM Sexual?BDSM vs. Kink Leave a CommentFiled under BDSM Basics, Sex and SexualityTags: BDSM, BDSM and sex, kinky side, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on BDSM and SexOur chat discussion transcript from 8/25/09 on this very topicIs BDSM Sexual?BDSM vs. Kink Leave a CommentFiled under BDSM Basics, Sex and SexualityTags: BDSM, BDSM and sex, kinky side, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shifting the Discourse on Female Dominance &#171; Topologies</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-23359</link>
		<dc:creator>Shifting the Discourse on Female Dominance &#171; Topologies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-23359</guid>
		<description>[...] This is a social justice movement. I&#8217;m not going to go out and organize an unconference. I&#8217;m sick of going to local kink events and feeling like no one there is really my sort of geek. But this is important to me, and it&#8217;s about damn time for me to start speaking up and fighting back. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is a social justice movement. I&#8217;m not going to go out and organize an unconference. I&#8217;m sick of going to local kink events and feeling like no one there is really my sort of geek. But this is important to me, and it&#8217;s about damn time for me to start speaking up and fighting back. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: maymay</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-16347</link>
		<dc:creator>maymay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-16347</guid>
		<description>Huh. I should perhaps also mention that I don&#039;t at all see how this particular question of semantics has anything to do with the thrust of my post, above, and I feel more than a little annoyed at myself for engaging in a semantic debate in this post when the real issue is about the perception of BDSM in the wider world. A slap on the wrist for me, and I&#039;ll try to do better next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh. I should perhaps also mention that I don&#8217;t at all see how this particular question of semantics has anything to do with the thrust of my post, above, and I feel more than a little annoyed at myself for engaging in a semantic debate in this post when the real issue is about the perception of BDSM in the wider world. A slap on the wrist for me, and I&#8217;ll try to do better next time.</p>
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		<title>By: maymay</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-16346</link>
		<dc:creator>maymay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-16346</guid>
		<description>Amber, can you elaborate on what you feel is the distinction between a &quot;class,&quot; a &quot;presentation,&quot; a &quot;lecture&quot;, and a &quot;session&quot;? You seem to have some extremely specific ideas about what each of these are, along with some strong preferences about the terminology people should use.

In my mind, my &quot;sessions&quot; were very much &quot;presentations.&quot; To be pedantic, I was preparing &quot;a demonstration or display of a product or idea&quot;, which is the definition of the word. I like the word presentation over session for events of this sort because while a session is technically accurate (defined by my dictionary as &quot;a period devoted to a particular activity&quot;), this doesn&#039;t provide much in the way of direction for the particular activity to progress. I disliked the very few sessions I attended at Sex 2.0 that seemed to trail off into nothingness. I specifically tried to avoid that with my presentations because I had a pre-formulated idea—however vague—of exactly what I wanted to talk about. Thus, I deliberately turned my sessions into presentations, and I tend to encourage the use of that word to inspire the same sort of directed thinking and acting in others.

But really, fuck it, sessions and presentations are close enough in my view that they are mostly interchangeable. Sessions or presentations and classes or lectures, however, are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amber, can you elaborate on what you feel is the distinction between a &#8220;class,&#8221; a &#8220;presentation,&#8221; a &#8220;lecture&#8221;, and a &#8220;session&#8221;? You seem to have some extremely specific ideas about what each of these are, along with some strong preferences about the terminology people should use.</p>
<p>In my mind, my &#8220;sessions&#8221; were very much &#8220;presentations.&#8221; To be pedantic, I was preparing &#8220;a demonstration or display of a product or idea&#8221;, which is the definition of the word. I like the word presentation over session for events of this sort because while a session is technically accurate (defined by my dictionary as &#8220;a period devoted to a particular activity&#8221;), this doesn&#8217;t provide much in the way of direction for the particular activity to progress. I disliked the very few sessions I attended at Sex 2.0 that seemed to trail off into nothingness. I specifically tried to avoid that with my presentations because I had a pre-formulated idea—however vague—of exactly what I wanted to talk about. Thus, I deliberately turned my sessions into presentations, and I tend to encourage the use of that word to inspire the same sort of directed thinking and acting in others.</p>
<p>But really, fuck it, sessions and presentations are close enough in my view that they are mostly interchangeable. Sessions or presentations and classes or lectures, however, are not.</p>
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		<title>By: Amber Rhea</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-16329</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber Rhea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-16329</guid>
		<description>There were people at Sex 2.0 who continually referred to the sessions as &quot;classes,&quot; and that REALLY grated on me. That was as annoying to me as when other people continually referred to the sessions as &quot;presentations&quot; or &quot;lectures.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were people at Sex 2.0 who continually referred to the sessions as &#8220;classes,&#8221; and that REALLY grated on me. That was as annoying to me as when other people continually referred to the sessions as &#8220;presentations&#8221; or &#8220;lectures.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: maymay</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-13484</link>
		<dc:creator>maymay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 23:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-13484</guid>
		<description>@-everyone: Let me apologize for being absent from the followup discussion this blog post spawned for two weeks now and for a little longer yet. I&#039;m sorry that I haven&#039;t gotten involved in the comments here yet because I really, &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; want to. I get the distinct impression that very few people who have commented actually took the salient point of what I wanted to get across away from this post, which is perhaps my own failure. The only point I&#039;m trying to make in this post is: &lt;strong&gt;the perception of non-sexuality advocates about sex-positive communities is incredibly poor&lt;/strong&gt;. Of &lt;em&gt;course&lt;/em&gt; we should be talking about sex, and we should be doing it publicly. What do you think &lt;a href=&quot;http://followsthesun.com/?p=166&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I&#039;m doing all the time&lt;/a&gt;? But it&#039;s not as straight forward as that and, frankly, the way in which most people I know who discuss the sex they have online is really harmful to their own stated goals. As I mentioned in this blog post, I&#039;ll elaborate further in the near future—hopefully in future blog posts and/or on this comment thread itself. Again, I&#039;m sorry I&#039;ve been remiss in addressing all the excellent points you&#039;ve been making. Thanks again for all your commentary so far. Please keep it coming—I really enjoy reading what you have to say about this, and I think it&#039;s an important discussion to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@-everyone: Let me apologize for being absent from the followup discussion this blog post spawned for two weeks now and for a little longer yet. I&#8217;m sorry that I haven&#8217;t gotten involved in the comments here yet because I really, <em>really</em> want to. I get the distinct impression that very few people who have commented actually took the salient point of what I wanted to get across away from this post, which is perhaps my own failure. The only point I&#8217;m trying to make in this post is: <strong>the perception of non-sexuality advocates about sex-positive communities is incredibly poor</strong>. Of <em>course</em> we should be talking about sex, and we should be doing it publicly. What do you think <a href="http://followsthesun.com/?p=166" rel="nofollow">I&#8217;m doing all the time</a>? But it&#8217;s not as straight forward as that and, frankly, the way in which most people I know who discuss the sex they have online is really harmful to their own stated goals. As I mentioned in this blog post, I&#8217;ll elaborate further in the near future—hopefully in future blog posts and/or on this comment thread itself. Again, I&#8217;m sorry I&#8217;ve been remiss in addressing all the excellent points you&#8217;ve been making. Thanks again for all your commentary so far. Please keep it coming—I really enjoy reading what you have to say about this, and I think it&#8217;s an important discussion to have.</p>
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		<title>By: kaizoku</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-13478</link>
		<dc:creator>kaizoku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 21:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-13478</guid>
		<description>Though I&#039;m not in any kind of kink scene, I can understand why you don&#039;t want to have the same old demos on the unconference - I can also see how they might be intimidating for people who haven&#039;t been around BDSM much. But I disagree with the broad statement that &quot;nobody but your sex partner cares how you fuck.&quot; I love talking with people about how we have sex, what turns us on - and yes, sometimes as part of a larger discussion of relationships, society, etc. Not that talking about your sex life should be compulsory - or hearing about other people&#039;s - but I think that it can be a fruitful discussion. I get your point about not wanting to divide people into kinky vs. vanilla. But in my experience, talking about sex and what different people enjoy or don&#039;t enjoy &lt;i&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; have to divide us. First, most &quot;vanilla&quot; people have done/thought about kink at one time or another. And second, we can celebrate and respect our differences - as well as our commonalities. I know that sounds cliche, but really - I love hearing about other people&#039;s experiences. I regularly read Bitchy Jones and I&#039;m about the farthest thing from a straight female dom. And I&#039;ve become much more aware of the kind of shit she has to deal with - and how that intersects with the oppression I face as a queer transguy.

I definitely agree that there&#039;s more to our identities and lives than sex, but I don&#039;t think ignoring it is healthy either - because (for a lot of us anyway) kink IS about sex. And I would disagree with you that the GLBT community made more progress once it stopped talking about sex. The first issues that queers dealt with were ALL ABOUT SEX - &quot;sodomy&quot; was literally illegal, people were arrested for going to gay bars (hooking up) and for wearing clothes of the &quot;wrong&quot; sex, etc. There is an argument to be made that the current round of &quot;GLBT issues&quot; - adoption rights, marriage, etc. - is mainly what&#039;s on the agenda of white, upper class gays, while the more marginalized parts of the queer community are still dealing with harassment, disenfranchisement and violence. And if you want to talk about public vs. private... well, I&#039;d suggest you read &quot;Public Sex&quot; by Pat Califia. Suffice it to say, queers (especially gay men) have a long history of embracing public sex and it was and still is (see the recent arrests of older gay men in NYC bookstores for examples) a big deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I&#8217;m not in any kind of kink scene, I can understand why you don&#8217;t want to have the same old demos on the unconference &#8211; I can also see how they might be intimidating for people who haven&#8217;t been around BDSM much. But I disagree with the broad statement that &#8220;nobody but your sex partner cares how you fuck.&#8221; I love talking with people about how we have sex, what turns us on &#8211; and yes, sometimes as part of a larger discussion of relationships, society, etc. Not that talking about your sex life should be compulsory &#8211; or hearing about other people&#8217;s &#8211; but I think that it can be a fruitful discussion. I get your point about not wanting to divide people into kinky vs. vanilla. But in my experience, talking about sex and what different people enjoy or don&#8217;t enjoy <i>doesn&#8217;t</i> have to divide us. First, most &#8220;vanilla&#8221; people have done/thought about kink at one time or another. And second, we can celebrate and respect our differences &#8211; as well as our commonalities. I know that sounds cliche, but really &#8211; I love hearing about other people&#8217;s experiences. I regularly read Bitchy Jones and I&#8217;m about the farthest thing from a straight female dom. And I&#8217;ve become much more aware of the kind of shit she has to deal with &#8211; and how that intersects with the oppression I face as a queer transguy.</p>
<p>I definitely agree that there&#8217;s more to our identities and lives than sex, but I don&#8217;t think ignoring it is healthy either &#8211; because (for a lot of us anyway) kink IS about sex. And I would disagree with you that the GLBT community made more progress once it stopped talking about sex. The first issues that queers dealt with were ALL ABOUT SEX &#8211; &#8220;sodomy&#8221; was literally illegal, people were arrested for going to gay bars (hooking up) and for wearing clothes of the &#8220;wrong&#8221; sex, etc. There is an argument to be made that the current round of &#8220;GLBT issues&#8221; &#8211; adoption rights, marriage, etc. &#8211; is mainly what&#8217;s on the agenda of white, upper class gays, while the more marginalized parts of the queer community are still dealing with harassment, disenfranchisement and violence. And if you want to talk about public vs. private&#8230; well, I&#8217;d suggest you read &#8220;Public Sex&#8221; by Pat Califia. Suffice it to say, queers (especially gay men) have a long history of embracing public sex and it was and still is (see the recent arrests of older gay men in NYC bookstores for examples) a big deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Kasey</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-12733</link>
		<dc:creator>Kasey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 06:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-12733</guid>
		<description>Graydancer: Your daughter was out as a lesbian. That doesn&#039;t mean she&#039;d had sex with a woman. There are kids who come out in middle school nowadays. It doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re having sex. It&#039;s about identity and relationships, not about sex acts. Identity and relationships might involve sex or sexuality, but they are not the same as sex acts. That&#039;s how PFLAG and GLSEN and GLBT youth groups can help found GSAs and talk about keeping kids safe in school, ending homophobic harassment, and giving them role models . . . and all of this does not involve discussing the act of having (any kind of) sex.

So, I don&#039;t really understand what the &quot;kink for all&quot; concept is going for, but as someone who founded my own high school GSA, I know that much is true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graydancer: Your daughter was out as a lesbian. That doesn&#8217;t mean she&#8217;d had sex with a woman. There are kids who come out in middle school nowadays. It doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;re having sex. It&#8217;s about identity and relationships, not about sex acts. Identity and relationships might involve sex or sexuality, but they are not the same as sex acts. That&#8217;s how PFLAG and GLSEN and GLBT youth groups can help found GSAs and talk about keeping kids safe in school, ending homophobic harassment, and giving them role models . . . and all of this does not involve discussing the act of having (any kind of) sex.</p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t really understand what the &#8220;kink for all&#8221; concept is going for, but as someone who founded my own high school GSA, I know that much is true.</p>
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		<title>By: Graydancer</title>
		<link>http://maybemaimed.com/2009/05/03/bdsm-versus-kink-nobody-but-your-sex-partner-cares-how-you-fuck/#comment-12576</link>
		<dc:creator>Graydancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maybemaimed.com/?p=880#comment-12576</guid>
		<description>I have to be the voice of dissent here: Kansas City high school queers, Jack McGeorge, and many others have proven that the &quot;mainstream&quot; DO in fact give a fuck about what you do - or what they think you do - in your bedroom. And how you do it. I find it interesting that I actually attended Dr. Braeme&#039;s speech and yet took such a different message away from it and the rest of the conference than what you wrote about here. My own daughter was harassed in her h.s. for coming out as a lesbian; her response was to start a GSA, and as a result her younger sisters (who were bi] had a much easier time. 

It is about sexuality, and framing it in larger terms is not going to change that perception. No, it&#039;s not about having a woman kneeling at your feet on the bus - but it&#039;s about being able to not lie about where you&#039;re spending your weekend, or being able to say &quot;it&#039;s from my mistress about the ring on your finger and not be harassed. You don&#039;t have to be advertising, but you should not have to hide things. 

I&#039;m glad kinkforall is such a success, but I&#039;ve been to a lot of conventions with gender based and queer based and political discussions, and they weren&#039;t limited to 20 minutes. They also happened to be alongside and often taught by the same demo classes that you find so boring - but which perhaps you shouldn&#039;t quite denigrate so much, as some people&#039;s sexuality does require a hands-on skillset. The two can and do co-exist. 

In short, while I agree with some of what you say, I think that pretending that it&#039;s not about sex is not very useful. It&#039;s got to be on a &quot;do you really wanna know?&quot; level of questioning, with honest answers, so that people can see that just because you&#039;re into kissing your mistress&#039; boots you are still qualified to teach them how to dance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to be the voice of dissent here: Kansas City high school queers, Jack McGeorge, and many others have proven that the &#8220;mainstream&#8221; DO in fact give a fuck about what you do &#8211; or what they think you do &#8211; in your bedroom. And how you do it. I find it interesting that I actually attended Dr. Braeme&#8217;s speech and yet took such a different message away from it and the rest of the conference than what you wrote about here. My own daughter was harassed in her h.s. for coming out as a lesbian; her response was to start a GSA, and as a result her younger sisters (who were bi] had a much easier time. </p>
<p>It is about sexuality, and framing it in larger terms is not going to change that perception. No, it&#8217;s not about having a woman kneeling at your feet on the bus &#8211; but it&#8217;s about being able to not lie about where you&#8217;re spending your weekend, or being able to say &#8220;it&#8217;s from my mistress about the ring on your finger and not be harassed. You don&#8217;t have to be advertising, but you should not have to hide things. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad kinkforall is such a success, but I&#8217;ve been to a lot of conventions with gender based and queer based and political discussions, and they weren&#8217;t limited to 20 minutes. They also happened to be alongside and often taught by the same demo classes that you find so boring &#8211; but which perhaps you shouldn&#8217;t quite denigrate so much, as some people&#8217;s sexuality does require a hands-on skillset. The two can and do co-exist. </p>
<p>In short, while I agree with some of what you say, I think that pretending that it&#8217;s not about sex is not very useful. It&#8217;s got to be on a &#8220;do you really wanna know?&#8221; level of questioning, with honest answers, so that people can see that just because you&#8217;re into kissing your mistress&#8217; boots you are still qualified to teach them how to dance.</p>
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