And like Lucy says, this seems to apply to both male subs/female dominants and female subs/male dominants.

Now, while I believe in equal rights, I do not believe in equal sexual psychology between group “female” and group “male”. I do believe that -even accounting for societal influences – more women inherently desire submission than men and so most representations in BDSM will and would always be primarily hetero male/ sub female – the fact is, as you do an excellent job of pointing out , that our societal narratives and narratives within the BDSM community are often so fucked up that this effect and prejudices such as Your Kink is Not Ok are excarbated. I hope that someday soon we can change that.

Having dealt with these for a while now, I think I can say they’re just trying to make their fantasy even hotter by contemplating a societal implementation. This, I believe, is what lies behind terrible websites like takeninhand.com and it’s counterpart elisesutton.com. They are trying to justify their private sexual fantasies by making that particular lifestyle the “right” one for everyone to live. And then they go into attempts to persuade people that this lifestyle is best for everyone. Their problem is they mistake and blur their personal fantasies with political activism.

I have written critically about this on my hubpages account and I’ve gotten into big arguments with people thinking I was attacking female supremacy as a lifestyle for individuals when I was actually attacking female supremacy as an imposed societal rule as some where suggesting.

Let’s not forget, if something like giving head is seen as submissive to you, then that is your personal perception. You are perfectly right to refuse it on those grounds but you should know that for many others it might not feel submissive at all. Therefore you are being unfair if you assume everyone feels the way you do and label oral sex as an act of submission and anyone who does that, is therefore surrendering their autonomy. Speak for yourself, feel for yourself and let others do the same.

Thanks again, maymay, for being a voice of reason in the darkness.

I do like to think of myself as being good at listening, from what people tell me. But so are you. That’s whats making this conversation very enjoyable.

[BDSM] seems to be all about rules. Now after reading more on the subject (mostly in your space) the last couple of days I understand, more concrete than formerly, that rules are one of the things whats played with, they are toys so to speak.

No, you’re correct. Rules can be the toys in BDSM. I strongly dislike the rigid protocol-driven approach to BDSM because I think it misses the point.

I actually came here via MaleSubmissionArt.com because aag linked it in one of her posts. I really liked browsing through it.

Oh! I’m sorry, I must have missed that. Where did AAG link to me? I didn’t see that either; I’d like to know.

Hey anyway thanks for taking the time to explain and talk to me, I know how tedious it is to explain your (in my case feminist) position again and again to people who just haven’t done enough reading.

Some people learn through conversation, not reading. That’s why I think it’s important to talk, and write, and listen, for instance. :)

It’s import is in what you say: “The idea of finding solutions instead of setting up rules presupposes that rules are not always solutions, which is a good thing to keep in mind.” See and I think this is where a lot of confusion for non-kinky BDSM-critics comes from. It seems to be all about rules. Now after reading more on the subject (mostly in your space) the last couple of days I understand, more concrete than formerly, that rules are one of the things whats played with, they are toys so to speak. Unless of course I misunderstood in which case I will continue my education.

I actually came here via MaleSubmissionArt.com because aag linked it in one of her posts. I really liked browsing through it.

Hey anyway thanks for taking the time to explain and talk to me, I know how tedious it is to explain your (in my case feminist) position again and again to people who just haven’t done enough reading.