Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

41 Comments

• by Nix

  07 Nov 2012 at 18:29

  

  *hugshugshugshugshugshugs*
  thank you. thank you. thank you.

• by Azrael

  11 Nov 2012 at 08:56

  

  Seems to work great, except this https://i.minus.com/jChnHHWY6ej3s.JPG happens a lot in the friends panel and the wall posts and makes it hard to click on someone’s profile without reporting them by mistake. Maybe making the text smaller or making a clickable small button next to the person’s name to drop down a menu would be better?

• by June

  14 Nov 2012 at 01:27

  

  I’m not a fetlife user myself, but I’m a longtime kink community member and I’ve been following this issue with interest, here and elsewhere. Over the years I’ve witnessed a number of non-consensual acts (ranging from minor to severe) by members of our community, including against confused newbies.

  How to keep this small minority of abusers accountable for their actions (within a community that’s already demonized and misunderstood by society at large) is, of course, a big and complex question. I’m sure you’ll get all kinds of reactions to FAADE, and frankly I have mixed feelings about it myself, but I’m grateful you’re actively addressing this issue.

  I wonder: how can this also spark broader discussion about accountability in our community beyond fetlife? (Because, as significant as that site clearly is for many people, it’s still not even on the radar for many other people.)

• by Mitch

  19 Nov 2012 at 00:16

  

  Just to make sure I understand this. Anyone an add to the database for any reason regardless of verification or proof but if the accusation is false you wont remove them from the DB. If the person has done nothing wrong and just has a bitter ex who rallies their friends against me, I can be added to the list. And my only reprieve is to add “close to the top” that I didnt do anything? Is that correct?

• by ErnestGreene

  21 Nov 2012 at 19:38

  

  Well, I see I managed to make your list:

  “232876 ErnestGreene Severe ErnestGreene is well known serial rapist. He has used his connections in the film industry to lure in a number of women, including a very close friend of mine. When asked about it, he will tell people that he never raped anyone, that it was something he was doing for a movie. Luckily, he is getting to old to continue doing this, but one should still be aware that he is a dangerous person. Do no allow him to tie you up. Los Angelas about 3 years ago”

  It’s been a tough day and I really needed a good laugh, so thanks for providing it. I’m not writing this with the intent of getting you to change what you’ve put up there, threatening or bullying you about it or anything else.

  In fact, it can stay there until doomsday as far as I’m concerned. Its impact on my life is likely to be slight. A professional pornographer doesn’t have a good name to protect, and I’ve been accused of far worse with equally little justification in much larger forums.

  I’m quite sure, after 25 years in this business, if the allegations had the slightest credibility they’d have been plastered in huge red letters all over the numerous porn blogs that have made their dislike for me quite clear.

  One drawback to being a public figure is that people can and will say bad things about you from which you enjoy little protection owing to your fame, such as it may be. One good thing about it is that, absent any proof of any kind, or even a lying witness willing to out themselves over it, no one is likely to take much that’s said about you seriously.

  I certainly could go through this little jumble of nonsense and dismantle it with ease, as it’s full of simple, factual errors that reveal the author as knowing nothing about me personally whatsoever.

  But my point here is not about me. It’s about how you do this thing you do, how it differs from what 429 advocates like myself have zealously supported from the beginning, and how seriously it undercuts your stated intentions.

  I’ve plenty of enemies on FetLife and I earned every one of them. Proud to have them, in fact. None have proved more virulently hostile nor adamantly determined to cause me some kind of trouble than those I’ve made for calling out BDSM community abuse and specifically advocating 429’s instant implementation.

  I have suggested limiting exchanges regarding abuse to the accuser, the accused and any eyewitnesses to which both could agree, but otherwise, I’ve held firmly to my core belief in freedom of expression, which has been a hallmark of both my personal and professional lives.

  In the course of many caustic exchanges over my support for 429 I have been accused “as an example” of being a child molester and a registered sex offender on FetLife, which charges were even more ironically pulled down by the caretakers.

  I have also been threatened with this kind of smear for not backing down on my position, which is not much different from yours.

  And that’s why it doesn’t surprise me to see it here, though it might surprise some who think there is no cost to be paid for supporting an unpopular cause. I’ve learned plenty about that over the years and I can tell you this is the kind of tactic is routinely employed in the type of ugly debate that’s surrounded this question.

  I would bet my last nickel that the charge was made by one of the anti-429 hacks who set out to teach me that much-deserved lesson.

  In other words, by spreading this poison without contacting me, or allowing me to reply in any way, you did just what you accuse FetLife of doing. You silenced one side of the story and by not allowing me to confront whoever made the claim, you’re granting an anonymity to those making charges I doubt many supporters of changing FL’s TOU would extend.

  My own position has always been that removing the existing prohibitions against criminal accusations would not only out predators, it would give those who were being accused of whatever the opportunity to know where it was coming from and reply in the same forum. It would then become up to the readers to decide who to believe.

  I’m not going to post anything on my profile about it and if anyone who uses your little widget decides to shun me as a result, I won’t notice. My social life is not built around FetLife and I have thirty years as a leather community activist here in Los Angeles, as well as the trust of hundreds of people who have worked with me professionally in the past 2.5 decades, to establish my sterling character, should I ever need to try and establish what that means in the context of who I am and what I do.

  But the point that concerns you and any true believers you bring along is this: by using the same tactics as FetLife, allowing one person to speak while telling the other to shut up, you’ve allowed an opponent to wrong an ally.

  My position on 429 won’t change as a result, but if this becomes commonplace, it will certainly have that effect on others with more vulnerable identities than mine.

  I therefore suggest that you rethink your methods here a bit. When an accusation comes in, prior to posting it, you might at least get in touch with the individual you’re placing in question and get a single comment in rebuttal from that person, then posting both.

  Otherwise, the False Accusations Gang is going to keep coming back here making allegations against those who agree with you, allegations you defiantly insist will remain up forever, and pretty soon you’ll have provided our common opponents with plenty of manufactured evidence about all those false allegations that they insist will inevitably follow any change in the TOU by using this site as a vehicle to make them themselves.

  They’ll have seen to it, as one of them previously threatened to do, that there are indeed as many false accusations as accurate ones that appear where allowed.

  If you embrace freedom of expression as a foundational principle and therefore allow all to speak, your own case for making a change in FL’s rules gets stronger.

  Episodes like this one just make it more difficult to argue for effective reforms.

  Ernest Greene, dangerous person

• by alex

  21 Nov 2012 at 23:18

  

  A suggestion i would like to make is to have ip addresses logged, and make it so each computer can only report each account once. Now that report can include multiple instances, but i think everyone is aware there could be a pissed off ex, or just random stranger who doesnt like you that reports you to get in trouble, espescially if it is easy and anonymous, but thats only 1 or 2 instances. as it is now, there is nothing stopping anyone from putting 47 different reports of abuse up on a single person which really looks shady on the person who is being accused, and there is nothing they can do about it.

• Pingback

  by FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine (FAADE) mentioned in NY Observer « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

  23 Nov 2012 at 13:26

  […] If you’re looking for the app, you can download it from my website here: http://maybemaimed.com/playground/fetlife-alleged-abusers-database-engine/ […]

• by maymay

  23 Nov 2012 at 13:52

  

  Ernest, your comment betrays a stunning ignorance of the technology you’re speaking about and therefore your suggestions do not make sense to me. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and suggest you educate yourself further about how this tool works.

• by TomCat

  02 Dec 2012 at 16:26

  

  Given that you’re pretty much throwing concern for the accuracy of the statements you’re republishing to the wind and putting the onus on the subjects of those statements to dispute them, I think you’re pretty much volunteering to become a defendant in an Internet defamation test case in the next few years, maymay. Given the amount of unverifiable, second-hand, or frivolous material that’s already accumulated in a month on this database, it looks as though it will all have been in service of spreading the equivalent of bathroom wall gossip.

• by Lollipop

  10 Dec 2012 at 03:02

  

  Seeing as how I see nothing that would prevent me from randomly reporting 100 people a day or so, I think it would be quite easy to make this tool completely worthless in short order. Seeing as how you are stating that nobody will ever be removed from the list means that all I have to do is complain about every person who ever irks me the wrong way. You’re not going to do anything to justify the report, at all.

  You’re taking the fetlife stance of not naming the abusers and going to the complete opposite end of the spectrum and letting people make up whatever the hell they want with no system of checks and balances.

• by June

  18 Dec 2012 at 13:47

  

  So, given the certainty that both true accusations and false accusations exist in the world (and that in most cases their ‘truth’ can’t ever be known by an uninvolved party):

  Is FAADE’s extreme better than or worse than (or simply a necessary complement to) fetlife’s extreme? Because, yes, they’re undeniably both extremes.

  There’s no question in my mind that in our culture (I’m only really familiar with the U.S., but I assume it’s better here, not worse, than global average), silenced legitimate accusations of rape and abuse outnumber illegitimate accusations of rape and abuse. I believe this DESPITE having seen, as many of us have, a few isolated examples of false (to the very best of my knowledge) accusations that seriously hurt some of the people closest to me, including my husband.

  I also strongly believe that ratio is even more skewed within bdsm community than within U.S. society as a whole, perhaps significantly more skewed. I believe too much of bsdm culture actively and explicitly protects a small minority of predators, who both violate bodies/souls and give a horrible name to the large majority of us who do scrupulously insist on consent in every sense.

  FAADE makes me both very uncomfortable and very grateful. I don’t agree with every aspect of it, but I disagree with fetlife’s approach as well.

  Here’s the real question: if FAADE isn’t your idea of how one should stand up to predators, what are *you* doing to stand up to them?

  Can you truly say you’ve never failed to step up and ask a question when you saw something that made you uneasy or concerned, at a meeting or at a party or online? Because *that’s* where help starts. fetlife is reinforcing, with all its power, the community standard that says abusers will not be questioned. FAADE is saying that’s not how things should be. The only way to change the culture without extremes in the other direction is motivation and agency on an individual level.

• by maymay

  18 Dec 2012 at 13:59

  

  June, see preliminary analysis. :) Thanks for your comment.

• by June

  18 Dec 2012 at 21:10

  

  Woah, that’s some blog. I will now both thank you and curse you for introducing me to it, because it demands to be read and I don’t know where to find the time. But mostly thank you…

• Pingback

  by Tracking rape culture’s social license to operate online « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

  21 Dec 2012 at 11:50

  […] The FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine (FAADE), a simple tool enabling any Internet user to report a profile on the fetish dating website FetLife.com as belonging to a person who allegedly violated boundaries in some way such as by perpetrating sexual assault or rape, is a completely open system without any vetting process or other safeguards. Most people’s criticisms of FAADE have focused on two main objections. First, that the system provides no way to verify that what was alleged to have occurred actually did, i.e., “but what about false accusations!” Second, that it will be spammed, overloading a user’s ability to meaningfully consume the reports filed in…. […]

• Pingback

  by Help FetLife’s Rape Culture FAADE Away – Transcending Boundaries Conference 2012 « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

  05 Jan 2013 at 15:49

  […] October, I introduced the FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine (FAADE) at the 2012 Transcending Boundaries Conference. After the keynote, the conference organizers […]

• by Eyesoar

  07 Jan 2013 at 20:32

  

  I won’t be using this, but have a question.
  You give a tool to the public, let them enter what ever they wish about alleged abusers. Tell us that nothing will be removed from the data base, that it is up to the accused to defend themselves in their comments on their profile.
  25 Oct 2012 at 23:08 is the first post about this on your blog.
  07 Jan 2013 an I found this totally by accident, and not through fetlife, but through Tumblr. May be wrong but it seems this is being done without FL’s support or consent.
  So my question is this, how will the accused who don’t wish to install this on their PC, be informed that some anonymous poster has just accused them rightfully or wrongfully of abuse?

  Nice idea, but think it could end up being similar to witch hunts, lot of people burnt without real proof they were a witch. An the abuser not really suffering much because people pointed fingers on line.
  Wouldn’t it be better to help the victim to come forward to the actual law?

• by maymay

  07 Jan 2013 at 21:05

  

  So my question is this, how will the accused who don’t wish to install this on their PC, be informed that some anonymous poster has just accused them rightfully or wrongfully of abuse?

  They can install and use FAADE, or they can subscribe to the RSS or Atom feeds of new allegations that are filed. Otherwise, they may not be notified. Tough cookies, huh, Eyesoar?

• Pingback

  by My (satirical) application to be hired as a FetLife Media Caretaker « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

  14 Jan 2013 at 19:34

  […] Since you state that being a Media Caretaker also requires searching for copyright holders’ and models’ contact info, I expect you to be pleased that I have a proven track record of discovering, though not making public, the legal identities of many people who use your service, particularly photographers. As an example, I was able to easily identify BDSM photographer Lew Rubens’ culturally appropriative photograph within minutes of seeing it. However, I have focused these efforts on the many rape apologists and alleged sexual predators who frequent FetLife.com as part of defending myself against physical and legal threats your user base have sent to me in response to the release of my tool designed to empower the many users whose postings you’ve censored, the FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine. […]

• by Daniel

  28 Jan 2013 at 18:03

  

  If you want to see the alerts and allegations, but do NOT want every FetLife page you view to be full of links offering you the chance to report consent violations on the part of everyone mentioned on that page, then you can turn those links off pretty simply. You will need to find the FAADE script and edit it very slightly.

  In Firefox, go to Tools > GreaseMonkey > Manage User Scripts…

  Right-click the listing for FAADE, and choose “Show Containing Folder”

  Open the FAADE script in a text editor (it’s currently called “151016.user.js”)

  Look toward the end (currently line 403) for the part that says

  // Offer a link to add another report for this user.
  // See also: https://support.google.com/docs/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=160000
  // Add link to report this user for a consent violation.
  var a = FAADE.createAbuseReportLink(id, n);
  user_links[i].parentNode.appendChild(a);
  last_id = id;

  Then add a // to the left of the next two lines, as follows:

  // Offer a link to add another report for this user.
  // See also: https://support.google.com/docs/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=160000
  // Add link to report this user for a consent violation.
  //var a = FAADE.createAbuseReportLink(id, n);
  //user_links[i].parentNode.appendChild(a);
  last_id = id;

  and save the file. Alternatively, you could delete the two lines in question. Either way, you’ve just disabled the part of FAADE that generates all those “report a consent violation” links, while leaving the rest of it intact.

• by Daniel

  28 Jan 2013 at 18:18

  

  (If you’ve turned those links off and find yourself wanting to report a consent violation, you have several good options.

  1) Use the link FAADE generates on the upper right of the violator’s profile page, right below “Message Kinkster” and “block user” and those links; the tweak I suggested does not turn off these links.

  2) Use the web form at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGNVT1kzSzFnOXhHRjh1RnczZVVmMXc6MQ

  3) Reverse the process I described to turn the vast swathes of “report a violation” links back on.)

• by breakingsilence

  29 Jan 2013 at 14:41

  

  I reported someone but typoed on the date. Is there a way to fix that?

• by maymay

  29 Jan 2013 at 15:34

  

  I reported someone but typoed on the date. Is there a way to fix that?

  No, breakingsilence. For numerous reasons, once filed, FAADE data is never editable. Instead, file a new report with the correct data.

• by Kenna

  15 Feb 2013 at 19:32

  

  It’d be nice if you could/would clear the trolls. A serial rapist has two jokes pertaining to him, which makes me feel like the reports with real accusations are nullified.

• by maymay

  15 Feb 2013 at 19:50

  

  For reasons already described in my post, “Tracking rape culture’s social license to operate online,” I can but won’t clear the trolls, Kenna. Moreover, there are mechanisms in place that highlight reports that are more likely not to be troll comments, such as the location-based broadcast. More of these kinds of filtered views on the data for end-users may be implemented in future versions.

  Also, I find the contrast between the obvious troll/griefer comments and the realistic-sounding reports to be an important and jarring experience for the casual observer. It really does showcase how monstrous the trolls and griefers are, doesn’t it?

• Pingback

  by Ready to ditch FetLife? Tools to make the transition easier. « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed

  10 Mar 2013 at 15:11

  […] also: The FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine, and its accompanying analysis, “Tracking rape culture’s social license to operate […]

• Pingback

  by Risk and Reward | Switch Studies

  19 Mar 2013 at 15:47

  […] to earn it.That starts with acknowledging the problem and giving victims a voice. Maymay’s FAADE tool is a step in the right direction, but the fact that this tool is a subversion of FetLife […]

• Pingback

  by Tunnel vision » Not Just Bitchy

  05 May 2013 at 18:06

  […] idea and if you use OKCupid you should absolutely install it (there’s a slightly different version for Fetlife, […]

• Pingback

  by Got Consent? Part III: FetLife Doesn’t Get It | Disrupting Dinner Parties

  08 May 2013 at 07:31

  […] into the breach. Internet activist/hacktivist/muckraker Maymay[2] has created a tool called the FetLife Alleged Abusers Database Engine (FAADE)–now rebranded as the Predator Alert Tool for FetLife (PAT-FetLife), a browser-side script […]

• by LP

  03 Feb 2014 at 20:36

  

  maymay,
  Will this work for a mac/safari?
  Thank you for your work and help.
  LP

• by maymay

  03 Feb 2014 at 20:40

  

  LP, Predator Alert Tool for FetLife was written to be compatible with “the Greasemonkey API,” so theoretically, you should be able to install something like GreaseKit for Safari to run Greasemonkey-compatible scripts in Safari. However, I’ve never tested it there, so I can’t say it works for sure. If you try it out and notice that something’s broken, let me know by sending me a bug report, please? If you try it out and it does work, let me know that, too, so I can make a note of that on the page above for other Safari users?

• by LP

  06 Feb 2014 at 17:30

  

  maymay,
  I tried downloading SIMBL (3x), which I need before I can download GreaseKit. All the “how to” pages tell me it will be Library/Application Support/SIMBL. Even though I have gone through the download process 3x now, SIMBL is not in Application Support. What should I do?

• by maymay

  07 Feb 2014 at 15:51

  

  LP, I don’t know what the issue is. I downloaded it, installed it, and it’s right where the instructions say it should be. You’re probably looking in the wrong place.

  If you want to install GreaseKit into just your own account, then you might need to create the “SIMBL” and its “Plugins” folder in the right spot in your own Home account, like it says on the guide my link references. I did that and it installed fine for me. I didn’t get PAT-FetLife to work, but I also didn’t look into it very much. Let me know if you do.

  Alternatively, you can also try downloading NinjaKit for Safari. (NinaKit is apparently another GreaseMonkey-like extension for Safari written by someone who speaks Japanese.)

• Pingback

  by How Privacy Works in the Predator Alert Tools | Emotional Mutation

  21 Jun 2014 at 12:55

  […] PAT-FetLife: [http://maybemaimed.com/playground/pre…] Runs on an 100% transparent database. It is basically just a big online spreadsheet that users can […]

• Pingback

  by Subs Need Classes Too! | The University of Abject Submission

  06 Jul 2014 at 21:57

  […] never heard a 101 instructor mention the Predator Alert Tool for FetLife, let alone explain how to interpret the spam in the database. And nobody tells you that victims who […]

• by Sara

  29 Sep 2014 at 17:52

  

  Thank you for this. FYI, the google doc for reporting seems to be down…

• by maymay

  29 Sep 2014 at 22:55

  

  Yes, Sara, unfortunately the google doc was attacked and rendered inoperable by Caroline Tyler, a computer systems professional in the healthcare industry and a FetLife user. You can read more about that, and our continuing exploration of what to do about this, by following links on my blog starting from the post “What happened to Predator Alert Tool for FetLife” and continuing at “What happens when a healthcare company’s employee takes down a rape survivor support site?“.

• Pingback

  by Dating Just Got A Serious Security Upgrade | /Slantist

  06 Oct 2014 at 21:29

  […] addition to these three tools, developers have also created a PAT for the kinky social network FetLife, the dating site ChristianMingle, the hookup-facilitating app DOWN (formerly known as Bang With […]

• by Pol

  27 Nov 2014 at 12:02

  

  When I go to report someone I get a page saying:

  “Oops… something went wrong.
  The form “Report abusive behavior by FetLife user (PAT-FetLife)” is no longer accepting responses.

  Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake. ”

  Could someone fix this? and if not, how can I report someone?

• by maymay

  27 Nov 2014 at 12:41

  

  Pol, please read the very top of the post on which you are commenting:

  Due to sustained Denial of Service attacks launched by some FetLife users, Predator Alert Tool for FetLife can not currently receive reports of consent violating behavior. However, several of its other features, including its ability to automatically scan FetLife user profile pictures for matches against the US Sex Offenders Registry, still work. For details on the ongoing attempts by BDSM’ers to obstruct Predator Alert Tool and shut down yet another space where survivors of sadomasochistic rapes are speaking about their experiences, please read this post.

• Pingback

  by Risk and Reward | Switch Studies

  18 Dec 2014 at 13:44

  […] to earn it.That starts with acknowledging the problem and giving victims a voice. Maymay’s FAADE tool is a step in the right direction, but the fact that this tool is a subversion of FetLife […]

• Pingback

  by FetLife’s Best Customers | Bandana Blog

  29 Apr 2015 at 20:10

  […] supporters are likely over-represented in the set of users who have allegations against them in [Predator Alert Tool for FetLife database]. Therefore, were FetLife to adopt a policy of removing members who were accused of consent […]

Consider reading my comment policy before you spend your energy writing a comment.