Stolen directly from Miss Avarice where I first saw this:
I would like to make special mention of a segment of this video at a time-mark approximately ten minutes and thirty-one seconds from the start:
Gender roles do change over time and they change within cultures. In, sort of, Western American culture, the only emotion that we really give and allow men to have is either anger or a sort of stoic pride. If men cry we consider that feminine, but that’s not the way in all cultures. In some cultures men cry very openly and are expected to and it’s considered masculine behavior. So it’s clear that it’s not a genetic component of who a man is, and it’s not a biological component, but crying or anger can be seen as social aspects of who we are.
I realize I am preaching to the choir by posting this here on my blog. So instead I now urge you to show this to someone who does not have the same understanding of gender fluidity as you do. Please. For instance, I’ve sent this link to my mother.
See also:
by Mirehn
06 Dec 2007 at 18:16
This video was very interesting for me, not least because I am questioning my own gender identity at the moment. Although I do identify with some aspects of being male, I also identify with some of being female, so I found what the gender-queer person said to be very personally illuminating.
One thing I have always wondered though (and I really don’t mean to cause offense to anyone), but if you personally identify with being mentally a certain gender, doesn’t changing your body to fit with what is stereotypically associated with that mental identity just reinforcing the idea that people with man-bits should act like this, and people with woman-bits should act like that? I fully support people’s rights to do what they want, it is just that the surgical option has always, to me, seemed to counteract what a lot of trans-gender people say.
by alterisego
06 Dec 2007 at 20:47
That’s a great video. Thanks so much for posting it.
by maymay
07 Dec 2007 at 00:30
I’m not sure it does, Mirehn, because that thinking seems to assume that one’s own idea of things should be considered more important than others’ perception of things (bear with me). It also seems to ignore the fact that self-expression is in part dependent upon the viewer. If I say I want to express myself as manly, then my presentation of manliness needs to match your idea of what at least can be manly, or else I’ve not successfully expressed myself to you, have I? (Value judgments on what a proper man should be are another matter.)
It must be isolating to live in a world where your self-expression is met with confusion or derision…. Hmm, that probably sounds familiar to many of us, doesn’t it. ;) Many people who experience such things aren’t even presented with the possibilities to be anything other than our gender stereotypes, which is in a way far, far more painful than being judged negatively for simply not conforming to a stereotype.
Of course, I couldn’t speak personally on what changing one’s body means to people—I don’t have the urge to do this on anything more than a superficial (psychologically) way, so I’m not sure if this would make sense. I also don’t know how much biology is involved with such decisions.
The trans-man in the video seemed to me to identify with very stereotypically masculine traits, that is, he seemed to feel much more “male” on the spectrum of gender identity than “female”, and so it’s not too hard to imagine that a stereotypically feminine body might cause physical discomfort. I mean, I would probably feel at least a little physically weird if I started growing breasts when I was a young boy. All that extra weight, for one…. I could guess young girls who who have penises would also feel similarly unaccustomed to their bodies, and we’re all familiar with the restless sensation of wanting to “get out of our own skin.” Not that this is anything like what transgendered people go through, but I’m trying to be communicative here.
All I know for sure is that they described something that isn’t at all alien to me: wanting to be treated decently, like any other human being.
by Avarice
07 Dec 2007 at 06:34
Maymay, I found the video first at (en)Gender and I see you included Helen’s link, so I think it’s all good! <3
Nice to meet you!
by Sod
07 Dec 2007 at 12:44
The bottom line for is exactly that: “wanting to be treated decently, like any other human being.”
One of the difficulties, beyond the issues of acceptance and qualifications within value-sets driven by typical “normal” male or female (only) perception, is the fact that all OTHER humans use THE SAME VALUES to define and express themselves. The issue is only touched lightly, compared to the depth of the discussion of the impact such realities have on their lives.
Just to clarify I imagine, say, that if aliens from a different planet came to live among us, we have no reference or tools, in language and in any other mental capacity, to process their definition. We would “naturally” try to understand who is male, who is female, or if they are some combination of that (still using the same references). Validating who they are will be a matter of judgement based on irrelevant and therefore erroneous references, and that may lead to difficulties, such as war. However, in time, new references will arise. It is inevitable.
by Tom Allen
07 Dec 2007 at 14:04
Oooh – tranny porn …
Hey, wait a minute! This is one of those educational things that’s meant to give me a better understanding of people around me, isn’t it?
Damn. I hate that.
by maymay
07 Dec 2007 at 14:58
Tom, I hear a lot of the same things about tranny porn that I hear about women in porn, namely that pornography (marketed as it currently is) is degrading to transexual people, yadda yadda yadda. Personally, I think transexual people can be super hot, not just for the genderqueering aspects of their presentation, so I rather like watching tranny porn. But then, I also like watching femsub porn and sex and just porn in general, really.
by KSkye
07 Dec 2007 at 23:03
Sod:
Did you ever see the Star Trek:TNG episode “The Outcast”?
I first saw it in my youth and remember it as one of the first times I really thought about how we view gender.
maymay:
Thanks for posting this! I’ve past along to a couple people.
by maymay
08 Dec 2007 at 02:38
The lovely thing about Star Trek stories was how richly they were able to comment on our society’s value systems while flying under the radar of those who would find such comments dangerous. I wish I had that talent. Alas, I am far too blunt.
by sod
08 Dec 2007 at 07:04
Kskye, yes indeed. Star Trek, of course, created, quite intentionally, many of the casts/molds for the crude definitions, insights and testing grounds haven of these exact issues. Our world owes Rodenberry and his followers a significant debt of gratitude for that. More so because, as maymay points, Star Trek did that despite obvious potential opposition. Here lies the importance and power of literature, and art, and any other form of expression, to guard against irrelevant imposition of limits on the human spirit, and to provide a reference and space for anyone who needs to be somewhere other than where they are. This blog and others are part of that.
by Robin
09 Dec 2007 at 20:33
Thank you for posting this! I have struggled trying to explain the spectrum example to some friends and family so they could better understand. Poor folks had finally understood the bisexual “thang” but when I had my aha moment, realizing genderqueer fit me perfectly – well there were a couple boggled minds. The video summed it up quite nicely and beats the hell out of a 20 minute lecture with a diagram for them. =)
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