While filling the Conversio Virium calendar with other group’s events to publicize to the CV crowd, I came across a curious meeting topic that DomSubFriends (one of our local NYC BDSM groups) is going to be presenting on shortly. It is a presentation, taught by a dominant man and intended for other men regardless of their various potential orientations (or so one is led to believe from the description), about how to be more successful when trying to meet partners. It’s called “Why can’t I meet someone? (In the scene!)”.
I have to say that I’m glad this topic is being brought up at a local kink group. I also have to say that whenever it’s been brought up in the past, it’s been a miserable failure of a presentation with no insight and nary a good point being made by the presenter or the audience. But maybe this time will be different….
Of course, it is an oft-cited criticism of the BDSM scene that many men have: “It’s too hard to meet women!” Indeed, many men feel that their attempts at engaging members of the opposite sex are consistently unsuccessful. What many men fail to note, however, is that women decry the experience of trying to meet a partner just as much, usually with the similarly oft-cited complaint: “Why is every man who talks to me so obnoxious and weird?”
In my decidedly not-as-vast-as-other-people’s personal experience and observations, there are a few key guidelines that have proven themselves to be invaluable to me personally and have been present in every successful pre-play interaction I have witnessed—ever. Astonishingly, very few men actually seem to follow these three simple steps, which apply regardless of situation, circumstance, or participants involved:
- Vanilla rules apply. Just as certain common-sense rules of etiquette are followed in non-kink spaces, so too must they all be followed in kink spaces outside of a scene. If you’re not invited to be a part of someone’s scene, that means you’re not in a scene, clear? Being in a BDSM dungeon does not implicitly grant anyone the right to be rude to, to invade the personal space of, or otherwise behave poorly towards anyone else, no matter who you are or who they are. End of story.
- Make conversation. Nine times out of ten, if you ask someone to play with you before you even say hello, you’re going to get turned down. Think about it: do you walk up to random women in bars and ask them to have sex with you? No, you talk to them first, you flirt. Do that in a BDSM club, too. If there’s some chemistry in the conversation first, then the apple of your eye is much more likely to say yes when you broach the topic of playing together.
- Be generous. Give and you shall receive. If you get turned down, be gracious and accepting about it. There’s nothing more damaging to your search for a play partner than to be seen acting like a big baby that can’t handle rejection politely. On the other hand, if your offer to play is accepted, then do something you are both going to like when you play and make sure your play partner knows how much you’re liking it while you’re playing.
If you’re topping, this means you top with enthusiasm tempered with lots of care. If you’re bottoming, this means you’re reacting to what she’s doing because, remember, she wants to be having an effect on you. I don’t think I know a single top who doesn’t like noise, or squirming, or something of the sort as long as it’s an authentic reaction and not a big phony act. Conversely, almost all of them really dislike playing with a stubbornly stoic, silent, expressionless bottom.
It’s unfortunate that when something isn’t working, many men simply try to do more of the same. If asking ten women to let him rub their feet didn’t work, he’ll just try asking another fifty, thinking one of them will eventually acquiesce. Sadly, this just doesn’t work. “Trying harder” without entertaining some kind of introspection is nearly guaranteed to fail every time.
The only cure for desperation is alternatives. If something’s not working for you, for goodness sake, give something else an honest try.
by Dev
28 Dec 2007 at 09:15
The funny thing about that whole “Can I rub your feet?” thing is that I’ve seen it pulled off successfully dozens of times – but only by men who are well-known in the environment. If you go to the same place a bunch of times and you’re pleasant and friendly with people, they’ll get to know you and will probably enjoy a random foot rub. (YMMV)
Other people don’t exist in order to dispense scenes. They’re people. Approach them as such.
I like “Make Conversation” the best. In the past year, I’ve had several scenes with men who were strangers at the beginning of the night. (Joscelin is one of these, though we ran out of time and had our first scenes the night after we met.) In all cases, our interaction began with conversation that wasn’t about whether we should have a scene. In all cases, I believe I gave fairly clear signals that I wanted to have a scene – either by asking directly or by clearly hinting.
The end of my first such conversation went like this.
Me: So, I’m a newbie here. How do you recommend I go about getting someone to actually spank or paddle me?
K: Well, you could say, “K, would you spank or paddle me?”
Me: K, would you spank or paddle me?
K: Yes.
Many people (women included) show up hoping to play with someone, and that can include someone they don’t already know, or don’t know well.
by Boston Boy
28 Dec 2007 at 10:03
If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll keep getting what you’ve always got. Fair enough. I need to work on number 3 a little sometimes, I suspect.
by Rona
28 Dec 2007 at 12:16
I know I have certainly played with people I have just met, and in pretty much all cases it has been because they/I have followed those rules. There is a polite approach, we talk, we discover if there is chemistry, one of us gets up the nerve to ask the other to play, someone says yes (or no), we go from there. Generally if I’m having a nice conversation with someone and they ask me to play I’ll say yes unless:
1. I’m really not in the mood to play that night.
2. I’m waiting to play with someone else at the time (or am otherwise busy in someway).
3. I can’t imagine we’ll be able to come up with something we both want to do (in which case, I’ll generally say this. I usually turn out to be correct, but I have been proven wrong on occasion.)
And, if its reason 1 or 2 and they take the ‘no’ well, we often end up playing sometime in the future. (However, them not taking a ‘no’ well is pretty much a guarantee that we won’t play in the future.)
by axe
28 Dec 2007 at 20:50
Thanks May. What with the new year days away I’ve been thinking about what I should do differently.
I rarely go to any play-parties (5 or so in the past year) though when I do I just go looking for friends since most dominant women arrive with a partner.
I’ve focused mainly on the dating websites that are geared to BDSM but I’ve decided that’s not the best venue to find someone for me.
You’re 100% correct when it comes to all of these rules, I’ve found that the old saying “just be yourself” works for me.
Thanks for the heads up on the DSF event. I’m sure there will be quite the line of single guys ready to go in (myself included).
by Dev
29 Dec 2007 at 00:25
A guy (a dom) at my club once yelled at me and called me a “fucking idiot” when I expressed my dislike for men holding doors open for women. The following week, he apologized, and offered me a scene. I very politely said no, and his response was, “I only ask once.” It just confirmed my sense that he was a jackass.
My other unfavorite thing that happens in this domain is when I have a really nice conversation with a guy for a long time, and then he tells me that he’s not comfortable playing in public, but would like to play with me in private. Sorry, but I go to the club because I like playing in public (partly because it’s safer, with people I don’t know well). My dad (one of those annoying people who is all about sales) used to say, “If you can’t buy it over the phone, you can’t sell it over the phone,” and the same partly applies here – if you won’t play with me at the club, you can’t seduce me at the club.
by Eileen
29 Dec 2007 at 00:31
Although I don’t think this is a rule that needs to be added to your list, I wanted to point out a guideline that helps a lot when being approached, as opposed to approaching: Be polite. Everyone, top, bottom, whathaveyou, has every right to express or not express interest in a potential scene. However, one of the hardest things for me, personally, was learning to say no (or yes) to offers *politely.* Mostly this was because I was receiving offers for scenes from strangers when I was a. new, and b. alone in Paddles. (No longer the case, as I never go alone any more.) As such, saying no would get me flustered, and often I would be ruder than I meant to be simply because I felt uncomfortable.
I think this may be part of the “give more to get more” theory. Had I not been so abrupt and cut myself off from people trying to talk to me, I might have made more friends and felt more comfortable, while still maintaining my own space and playing only when I truly wanted to.
You’re much more likely to be asked to play by receptive friendly people if you are also receptive and friendly.
Also, to expand upon the “make conversation” item, it is incredibly valuable to everyone involved if, when asking someone to play, you’re able to clearly articulate your interests, limits, and needs. Being able to do so shows forethought, care, smarts and self-preservation, all things that are highly likable (and in some cases necessary) in a potential play partner.
by maymay
29 Dec 2007 at 02:14
Dev, Eileen, thanks for bringing up those good points. They are important enough yet distinct enough that they belong in a new list, not this list. Thanks.
by Rona
29 Dec 2007 at 13:09
Dev,
I don’t know if you’re reading follow-up comments, but I’m curious as to your reasons for disliking men holding doors open for women.
Is it a gender inequality thing? I have to admit I’m personally a big fan of politeness…. but that just means whomever gets to the door first holds the door open for whomever is following – regardless of gender. :)
My initial reaction to your comment was “Really?” but then it occurred to me that I often find the practice somewhat insulting myself. You know, I’d go on, but I think I actually want to write about this at length, so I’m going to do so in a place that’s not taking over May’s comment section.
by tom paine
29 Dec 2007 at 13:14
Very sensible in all respects. It’s surprising how people in ALT lifestyles forget the most common sense rules of polite behavior. If we’re going to be intimate, all the more reason to be someone I’d enjoy having dinner or a drink with, not some selfish piece of meat.
by Eden
31 Dec 2007 at 18:08
Vanilla rules apply. Just as certain common-sense rules of etiquette are followed in non-kink spaces, so too must they all be followed in kink spaces outside of a scene. If you’re not invited to be a part of someone’s scene, that means you’re not in a scene, clear? Being in a BDSM dungeon does not implicitly grant anyone the right to be rude to, to invade the personal space of, or otherwise behave poorly towards anyone else, no matter who you are or who they are. End of story.
Thank you for saying this! I have been so angry about just this lately. I know I’m coming late to the comment table on this post, but I’m so glad you said this. Thanks again!
by SJ
03 Jan 2008 at 12:45
Link on the idea of scarcity – he’s writing about how we don’t perceive options, because they scare us. This seems to relate a little to play options – do we wall ourselves off from forms of play we might chase, which might be an option?
http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1031094.html
by maymay
03 Jan 2008 at 14:57
That’s a great little piece of writing. Thanks for sharing it with me, SJ.
by James
14 Apr 2009 at 23:52
Nice set of rules. I think- Make Conversations- gets overlooked easily and often. But really is a very natural and easy way to make connections fast.
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17 Jul 2012 at 01:55
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