and now they press to tell me that I am brave.
how sharply our children will be ashamed.
taking at last their vengeance for these horrors.
remembering how in so strange a time
common integrity could look like courage.
Shifting her weight nervously from one leg to the other, she fumbled to get the cash out of her purse. Something was clearly bothering her. She was tall, had thin dirty blond hair, and was dressed rather plainly for someone who had clearly made an effort to dress up.
It was a party night at the San Francisco Citadel a couple weeks ago in late May. I volunteered for an hour-long shift, which allowed me to attend the $20 party for free. I was to “work the door,†a position I’d never held at this venue before. When I arrived, the coordinator introduced me to the volunteer who was to “work the cash register.†While my volunteer buddy would sign people in, check their membership, and collect admission fees, I would make sure the line was smooth, that no one got rowdy, and that accidental walk-ins were turned away.
The name for my position was “bouncer.†This is funnier if you’ve met me in person. I’m a short, scrawny white kid with a big nose and a frizzy Jew-fro (and that’s on good hair days). “Bouncer†makes you think of a tall man, probably Black, who’s got a shaved head and huge arms. Apparently this venue requires every event there to have a volunteer fill this role, but I’m no bouncer.
Having “bouncers†at BDSM club nights encourages Scene volunteers to do everything wrong when it comes to creating an atmosphere of safety, trust, and mutual acceptance. Having bouncers, especially bouncers with my physical traits, is absurd security theater that panders to the emotional insecurities of venue owners and Scene regulars. It is not thoughtfully designed to address the fraught, fragile reality of the community’s most valuable constituents: newcomers. Worse, the notions of exclusivity it exemplifies are antithetical to the BDSM community’s stated goal of warmly welcoming newbies, betraying either the community’s inexcusable hypocrisy or its rulers’ idiocracy.
“Bouncers†are just one example. This past Friday, I attended another regular party called Bent, a party I found deeply distasteful, billing itself as being for “youth,†by which the organizers mean people who are “18, 19, 20’s, or 30’s.†In the organizers’ defense, “youth,†in BDSM Scene parlance, does generally mean “under 40,†but that’s some fucked up bullshit in itself.
The following night at the SF Citadel was the inaugural Luscious party, billing itself as being the first BDSM party at the SF Citadel “to welcome people of all shapes.†Inexplicably, the theme of this first event was corsetry. Let me make this perfectly fucking clear: it’s awesome that people of all shapes and sizes can and do enjoy corsets, but the fact that the first party expressly welcoming “people of all shapes†asks you to change your shape is just one more example of how deeply BDSM Scene power brokers have internalized and then re-express overculture oppressions, in this case equating hourglass figures to beauty.
We don’t need to buy that bullshit, nor Scene double-speak. We don’t need “bouncers.†We need “bus drivers.†In 1995, Daniel Goleman showcased a bus driver’s transformative power in his book, Emotional Intelligence:
It was an unbearably steamy August afternoon in New York City, the kind of sweaty day that makes people sullen with discomfort. I was heading back to a hotel, and as I stepped onto a bus up Madison Avenue I was startled by the driver, a middle-aged black man with an enthusiastic smile, who welcomed me with a friendly, “Hi! How you doing?” as I got on, a greeting he proffered to everyone else who entered as the bus wormed through the thick midtown traffic. Each passenger was as startled as I, and, locked into the morose mood of the day, few returned his greeting.
But as the bus crawled uptown through the gridlock, a slow, rather magical transformation occurred. The driver gave a running monologue for our benefit, a lively commentary on the passing scene around us: there was a terrific sale at that store, a wonderful exhibit at this museum, did you hear about the new movie that just opened at that cinema down the block? His delight in the rich possibilities the city offered was infectious. By the time people got off the bus, each in turn had shaken off the sullen shell they had entered with, and when the driver shouted out a “So long, have a great day!” each gave a smiling response.
The memory of that encounter has stayed with me for close to twenty years. When I rode that Madison Avenue bus, I had just finished my own doctorate in psychology – but there was scant attention paid in the psychology of the day to just how such a transformation could happen. Psychological science knew little or nothing of the mechanics of emotion. And yet, imagining the spreading virus of good feeling that must have rippled through the city, starting from passengers on his bus, I saw that this bus driver was an urban peacemaker of sorts, wizardlike in his power to transmute the sullen irritability that seethed in his passengers, to soften and open their hearts a bit.
With this in mind, I mentally said “fuck that shit†to my volunteer role and instead of acting like a “bouncer,†I acted like a bus driver, or a KinkForAll greeter.
The Bus Driver
“Hi!†I’d chirp from my seat on the stool, swinging my legs in the air like a little boy. “Here for Transmission?†That was the name of the party: Transmission, the San Francisco Citadel’s party for trans, and generally queerer, people. Stacks of my own business cards bulged in my pockets. A pen was tucked neatly behind my right ear. I held a hand stamp and an ink pad which I offered to use on anyone who went out for a smoke.
Like many of the other party goers I greeted, the nervous woman nodded her head quickly and replied with a soft “yes†at my inquiry.
“Great!†I said. Then, gesturing to the short line ahead of her, added, “We’ve got a bit of a bottleneck, but you’ll be inside in a jiffy!†I smiled at everyone, but I felt it was especially important that I smiled specifically at her, now.
“Okay,†the woman said. She looked towards the fliers next to me, then at the wall, then the ceiling. She looked anywhere but at me.
“First time at the Citadel?†I asked. She shook her head. “Been here before?â€
She nodded. “Mhm, but not for a while.â€
“Oh? How long has it been?†I probed.
“6 years,†she said.
“Wow,†I said. “Welcome back!†Stay enthusiastic. Smile. Look directly at her, but not piercingly. Be the bus driver. The woman gave me a half-smile and looked away again. “I’m maymay,†I said, extending a hand for her to shake.
“Joyce,†she said.1
“Hi Joyce! So, what kept you away from here for so long?â€
“Oh,†she started, slowly, as if dipping her toes into a cold pool, “treatment.†I waited, still smiling, looking at her expectantly. “And transition. This will be my debut as a woman,†she said.
“Oh wow.†Then, in a much lower, softer voice, I said, “It can be really, really hard to come out to a party after 6 years.†She nodded again. She wrung her hands together. I put down the hand stamp and ink pad on my thigh and pulled the pen out from behind my ear, a card from my pocket. I wrote my website address on the card as I continued, “I remember how hard my first party after a year of being overseas was for me. It felt really scary to be around people I remembered but to feel so different, myself. But y’know, all it takes is a little work and things will get easier.â€
“Yeah,†I heard her say as I finished writing. I looked up at her with my expectant face, holding out my card. She took it. “I’m meeting someone tonight,†she said. “I don’t know where he is. I hope he’s inside.â€
“Awesome!†I said. “There are a bunch of people in there.â€
By now the small bottleneck of people had cleared and the cashier was ready to help Joyce. She spoke to me while looking over her shoulder. “I’m excited but I’m nervous. We’ve never met.â€
“Aw, don’t worry,†I said. “You look great. And that’s what parties are for!†She blushed, stammered a thank you, knocked a small sign on the cashier’s desk over with her purse, and apologized to my volunteer buddy more than she needed to. As she headed inside past the curtained entrance, she turned to me, now smiling, and said she’d let me know if she found her date.
“Okay!†I nodded vigorously. “Have fun!†I called after her. Then, without skipping a beat, I turned to the next party-goer, smiled, and said, “Hi! Here for Transmission?â€
I lost track of time—and I was running low on cards. At some point later in my shift, I heard my name. “Maymay!†It was Joyce, holding the curtain open. “He’s here!†she said with a big, radiating smile.
“Wonderful!†I called back. “Go enjoy!†She nodded and disappeared.
Eventually my shift was over, so I headed into the party myself. I had personally invited numerous people who hadn’t ever been to the Citadel before. Most had shown up, perhaps encouraged by the wording of my invitation: “I’ll be working the door for the first hour, so come by at, like, 8:55 PM and you can see me the moment you walk in.â€
Once inside, my friends asked me for a tour. “Well,†I said, “this is the social space, where people talk. I mostly just hang out here. There’s a downstairs with play equipment but I don’t often go there.â€
“Show us?†they asked.
Grudgingly acquiescing, I lead them downstairs. “So, these are the pictures in the hallway of women looking bottom-y,†I said as we descended the stairwell. “One, two, three, four, five, six, seven….†I looked around, “The 7 pictures of women looking bottom-y, to be precise.†I pulled my pen out from behind my ear and wrote down a big “7†on the back of my hand, then continued downstairs.
“And this is the main play space,†I told them. Someone I’d met while greeting people earlier was standing near the entrance to the play space. He had an orange handkerchief tied around his arm. “Oh,†I said, walking everyone towards him, “and this is Uncy Val. Hey, Val, you’re on DM duty tonight?â€
“Yup,†Val said.
“Great!†I said. “You can give my friends a way better tour than I can. Would you show them around? This is their first time here.â€
“Well, sure!†Val said, jumping into action after a quick glance to another DM nearby.
One of my friends grabbed me by the hand. “Come with us?â€
“Nuh-uh. I’m gonna go upstairs and talk to people.â€
“Oh, come on. Do that in ten minutes?â€
I clucked my tongue and shook my head, pulling my hand away. I’d helped prepare dungeons (including this one) for parties in the past. I didn’t want a tour. I ditched them in the trusted hands of the Dungeon Monitor and went back upstairs.
I can’t stand BDSM play spaces anymore. They make my skin crawl and my blood pressure dangerously high. Too often, they’re lined with men topping and women bottoming or, if I’m lucky, men-dressed-as-women-who-are-bottoming. This is what I’ve come to call “the wall.†At this point, their human bodies look to me like the upholstery for the equipment itself. When I get too close to “the wall,†adrenaline courses through my veins, priming me for fight-or-flight.
I used to find BDSM clubs at least cursorily comfortable spaces. Now they’re a reliable trigger. It’s foolproof, and personally tragic.
The Gadfly
I spent the party itself putting all my energy into being a social butterfly. That’s not something that comes naturally to me, although you’d never guess if you met me at a party. I spoke with more people than I could remember names. I gave away every last card I brought and all the BDSM Workshop Bingo boards I had printed.
I used the BDSM Bingo boards to start some conversations, to end others. (Print your own randomized boards and take them to your local meetings.) Some of the trans people at the party encouraged me to change “demo bottom is a female-bodied person†to “demo bottom is a female-assigned person,†which I later did when I got home. I retold my experiences regarding the inspiration for each of the items on the board when someone asked, and sometimes even when they didn’t.
I wrote notes all over my arm because the SF Citadel doesn’t allow the use of mobile phones or PDAs at parties. By the end of the night, the “7†on the back of my hand had been scratched out, replaced with a “9†then a “10,†then a “12.†I paused my own and interrupted others’ conversations to keep this count updated as conspicuously as politely possible. Of the 12 images of people that I found, seeing all of them depict female submission is typical of these venues.
(Try keeping a count like this at your local play space. For extra credit, keep separate counts to record the presence or, more likely, the lack of racial, age, size, etc. diversity. You’ll probably be told that the art gets “rotated,†perhaps to “feature different artists.†Save your tally, come back when the next artist is featured, and repeat the process. See how long it takes before you get told to “make your own [damn] art.â€)
Shortly after necessary pleasantries (“Hi. What’s your name? Where are you from? Have you been here before? What do you like to do?â€) I engaged most of the people with whom I spoke in a conversation that could easily be summarized to ardent readers of this site as “See also: my entire blog(s).†Not everyone wanted to have these conversations, I didn’t find the right opening with others, and still others seemed tangentially interested but unable to grasp the most basic concepts, though they tried. I enjoyed making firmer connections—and made a point of exchanging contact information—with those who could and would grok why the BDSM Scene is a severely prejudiced place.
Naturally, many more people can grok these things than will grok them, and those who can but won’t are rightfully called “privileged shits.†Of course, I rarely uttered the phrase “privileged shits†in person at the party, instead opting to ask a lot of people a lot of questions. In a culture of essentialist conformity like the BDSM Scene, questions are disruptive—â€you’re like an annoying five year old, always asking ‘why’ questions,†one male top told me at Bent—and being disruptive can be dangerous. Socrates was put to death for his questions, as Plato recounted:
Socrates likens himself to a GADFLY (a horsefly). Just as a gadfly constantly agitates a horse, preventing it from becoming sluggish and going to sleep so too Socrates, by (moving through the City) stirring up conversations in the marketplace, prevents the City from becoming sluggish and careless and intolerant (thinking it knows something when it doesn’t).
Of course, I face no danger of literal death, but rather a sort of social death: ostracization. As you can imagine, I’m not especially well-liked at parties. “Look, I came here to get into the mood to play,†the agitated male top eventually told me in an effort to step away from the conversation I had instigated.
Granted, it was a fair thing for him to say. Our attendance clearly had different motivations. He came to play. I came to collect data.
What I wanted, in that moment, was to tell him what a privileged shit I thought he (and his female submissive partner) is, how fortunate he (and she) is that he (and she) even has a place where he (and she!) can come “to get into the mood to play.†I wanted to express how furious I am that it seems so few in the BDSM community will lift a goddamn finger unless it’s to get their own rocks off, and how mind-bendingly hypocritical responses to my fury like “gosh, maymay really needs to get laid†are. I can only hope such responses come from a place understanding the relevance of those very responses in the bigger picture, rather than from a place that trivializes the sentiment.
Change The Game
As Transmission was winding down, I saw Joyce making out with an acquaintance I had met a few parties ago. Later, at party close when we were all on our way out the door, Joyce flagged me down. “I had such a great time!†she said, and I smiled back at her. “Way better than I ever bargained for!â€
“That’s fantastic,†I said. I was genuinely happy to see her literally bounce with delight before scurrying off to collect her things.
Joyce could have had a miserable time that night. I didn’t make her night, but I like to think it was better than it might have been had I not greeted her. An enthusiastic smile from just about anyone can go a long way, but not as far as an empathic one from someone who feels a connection to a similar history.
I really do want to make the BDSM Scene a better place. Part of that means being the bus driver. And part of that means being the gadfly. What does it say about the community’s attempts to be inclusive when someone filled with as much contempt for it as I am is able to extend a warm welcome further and more reliably to its newcomers than they do? And what does it say about the community’s capacity for self-awareness when they spend years dismissing critical questioning?
Of the several different parties at the SF Citadel I’ve been to, I found Transmission to be the most accepting of the kinds of conversations I was starting. I think that’s in no small part due to the fact that the hosts are sensitive to these issues and they’re doing what they can to address them with limited resources. It probably shouldn’t have taken me as long as it did to realize that even though I came away from my own gender exploration firmly affirming that I’m a cisman, due to the way the BDSM community supplants the hegemonic (man/woman) gender dichotomy with its own (dom/sub) power dichotomy, it is trans people with whom I feel most kindred.
This is my activism. I’m going to be at many more parties. I’m going to greet people warmly, genuinely wish them a good time, and politely excuse myself when I get triggered—because I know I will. But I’m also going to point out every last fucked up thing I see, and I’m going to name every shitty problem in BDSM spaces no matter how small or insignificant it may seem to anyone else. And this is me telling everyone that I’m going to do it very, very publicly.
This is what I do at BDSM parties these days. I’m not going to the party to party. I’m going to change the game.
- This name has been changed. [↩]
by Sunshine Love
07 Jun 2011 at 14:49
Interesting distinction between “bouncer” and “greeter”. It seems to me that both functions might be necessary, though it’s interesting that the label chosen is the former when the latter would be more inclusive and welcoming.
In particular, I’m thinking how nice an effective bouncer might have been if/when certain entitled fucks roll in stumbling drunk. I think that’s the general idea behind the need, though as I’ve seen, implementation can be somewhat spotty.
by Bellaforte
07 Jun 2011 at 15:11
Maymay-
I think I’m really blessed here in Atlanta because my local playspace is owned by a woman. Geared around her pro-Domme practice, it has many portrayals of not only male submission but of Genderqueer individuals. Moreover, the usual doorperson isnt effusive by nature, but he is very friendly in particular to newcomers.
With that said, I know that not every space is like that, and I love you for continuing to work to make them better.
by maymay
07 Jun 2011 at 16:08
Good to hear you find your local play space better suited to your wants, Bellaforte:
To the best of my knowledge, August Knight (a self-identified female dom) is co-owner of the SF Citadel and one of its most active members, even (by my account) more than her business partner and husband, who goes by the name Citadel Phil. Also, the fact that the Atlanta play space is owned by a pro-Domme is its own red flag to me, although obviously I can’t speak to the nature of that play space from personal experience. My point is that I do not think the criticisms I raised in this post relate to the gender of a venue’s owner.
Thanks. :)
by Megan Stories
07 Jun 2011 at 21:17
I’m glad you’re doing this work. I know queer and “women and trans” kink spaces best, but those could definitely use more welcoming, friendly, boundaried folks to greet and support partygoers. It also sounds like a good way for someone who isn’t playing to still participate in a party. I often stay home from play parties because there is no way of connecting with people if I don’t play, which I often don’t.
by Elaine
07 Jun 2011 at 21:48
I find it interesting that you were told your position is called “bouncer.” I’ve worked that position at the Citadel before, more than once, and was always told that I was a “greeter” and that my job was to make sure people had IDs and membership cards out, and had read the rules if they were new. I wonder if it’s because I’m short and female? For all that you may not look like a typical bouncer, I look even less like one.
Also, to chime in about BENT…this was the first one I went to, and I had a good time because I was with close friends. If I had been alone, however, which was my original plan, I would’ve been even more creeped out and turned off than I already was by the crowd. It made me sad to be female and mostly submissive — how do I play how I want to without adding to the horribleness out there?
Random tidbit: my male partner, who’s mostly toppy these days, usually dresses up in cute skirts and girly tops while being terribly evil. It’s interesting how weirdly he gets treated for this sometimes…
by maymay
08 Jun 2011 at 00:02
That’s interesting, Elaine:
Oh? Do tell! What might’ve made you feel “creeped out and turned off…by the crowd”? Feel free to reply to the private email I just sent you asking the same thing if you’d prefer to answer out of band.
You also bring up an important point and ask a very hard question:
I believe strongly that submissive women and dominant men need to have spaces where they, too, can play the way they want to. I will go out on a rhetorical limb and say that while the stereotypes of maledom/femsub play that I describe as “the wall” in this post do “work” for some people (as do the reciprocal notions of all the stereotyped femdom bullshit), the current stench of utterly mindless conformity within the BDSM Scene writ large also hinders other people of that same maledom/femsub orientation. This is similar to the way patriarchal gender roles jail men as well as women.
The issue, when viewed in a social justice perspective, is different from the issue when viewed in a personal perspective. In the former, the question is how and why the environment informs personal desires, whereas in the latter, the question is how to fulfill one’s desires regardless of their origins or whether they are “politically correct.” That’s not easy in shared space.
My fury stems not from the existence of other people’s play that I am triggered by, but from the monopolizing representation (privileging) of play like that. Even in an imperfect reality rather than an ideal world, it should and can be just as easy for you to go to a BDSM club as a submissive woman and play the way you damn well want as it should for me, as a submissive man to do the same. But with venues like the Citadel (or, notably, Kink, Inc.) who practically make submissive men downright invisible, regardless of whether it’s due to malice or ignorance, such equal opportunities become damn near impossible.
There are things you can do to help, starting simply with calling out your local play spaces and Scene leaders on their plethora of bullshit. That can be as simple as playing BDSM Workshop Bingo at the next meeting you go to or keeping tallies like I describe doing in this post. Let me know if you give it a try.
And thanks for the interesting comment.
by lalouve
08 Jun 2011 at 07:47
I decided some time ago that I will not attend clubs only (or overwhelmingly) advertised with female subs/male doms (Nimhneach, I’m looking at you), nor will I shop from places that do that. If more people (and I don’t mean you, maymay, as I really don’t think you should be obligated to do more activism than you are) would take that view, and make it clear to the owners of clubs and shops, we might see improvement.
by Elaine
08 Jun 2011 at 10:02
Hi Maymay,
Where to start about feeling creeped out? It was a combination of things. One big one was the large number of single men, blocking the way downstairs (or standing around the walls downstairs) and staring down seemingly every woman…yes, one has to be at least a bit of an exhibitionist to play in public, but being gawked at feels creepy. It didn’t help that most of the men were fully dressed, while many of the women were…much less so. Not an uncommon dynamic, but off-putting, nevertheless.
I guess overall, the atmosphere did not feel safe to be vulnerable in. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but this party, more than some other ones I’ve been to, had a sense of people watching and judging scenes, for “edginess” or “coolness.” Part of it was probably my own insecurity, feeling like maybe I’m not enough of a masochist or enough of a sub or what have you, but this party brought it out more than others do. It goes back to the gawking, in a way — that kind of looking implies judgement rather than simple observation. Am I making any sense? :)
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment that conformity within the BDSM scene hinders everyone, including people who outwardly fit the stereotypes. My partner and I often notice that while on the surface, we’re a “typical” maledom/femsub couple, we don’t feel like we fit those roles very well on the whole. I feel lucky that we are on the same page about not having to live up to the stereotypes, but we’re outsiders in our local community, which makes it easier to do what we want.
I have to admit that I tend to take the path of less resistance to things — my local club (I don’t live in SF most of the year) has had a lot of issues with helping the younger crowd or the LGBT community feel comfortable playing there, so on the whole, I’ve stopped playing there instead of being in the middle of the mess. I am rethinking this approach and trying to figure out how to balance my unhappiness with the way things are with my desire to not get tangled up in it all. I admire you for your willingness to stir things up, I’m not much good at that myself.
Re: BDSM Workshop Bingo, I read that post about a week ago when I had just gotten back from Shibaricon, and it was interesting to go back and try to apply the card to the workshops I attended. At my local club, I could’ve filled it out pretty easily. At Shibaricon, though, I’m not sure I could’ve gotten a bingo anywhere. The two things that are overwhelmingly true there are that demo bottoms are almost exclusively female-bodied and identified and that presenters are almost all top. However, I didn’t see a lot of the same bullshit that I’ve seen elsewhere, and that you have addressed in the card. It does make me wonder what makes the difference, and also if that’s the reason I feel somewhat sheltered from a lot of the scene bullshit — my first introduction to public kink was Shibaricon a few years ago, and while I’ve played at clubs a lot more since then, it’s still my point of reference. I dunno.
Thanks for allowing me to write an essay in your space! :)
by Sunshine Love
08 Jun 2011 at 15:00
Interesting Elaine should bring Shibaricon up in relation to BDSM Bingo. I’ve been to Shibaricon for a number of years now, and while it is heavily populated by mostly male tops, there *does* seem to be less of the heavy role essentialism visible there.
The format helps. Being held in a hotel, there is *no* art on the walls to create any sort of defined sexual space. There’s hardly any of this tops only tie and bottoms only get tied bullshit. Since *most* people there are tops or switches, they all practice together and take turns learning on each other.
The event costs a fortune what with hotel costs, so very few people can afford to bring their own bottoms, and bottoms don’t want to go because it’s a ton of money to pay to hope somebody plays with you if you’re not interested in tying at all.
There *are* a few classes for bottoms (AND taught by bottoms/switches, ie: Mollena, Cherries Jubalie, Claire Adams, & Sophia Sky), but they’re often poorly arranged so that they overlap with either another bottom class or one that requires paired activity with any partner they may have brought.
Also, the language (mostly) tends towards the top/bottom perspective and less of the sub/dom, though there are exceptions. Most of the presenters are first class, though others do slip through. Worst ever was when a prodom made us sit for two hours watching her tie spreader bars on a guy on the floor, without narrating or having her assistants, y’know, assist. I don’t think she made it back.
They also have feedback forms and pencils for EVERY class, which I use copiously and presumably contribute to the ongoing quality of the event. There are convenient drop boxes for the forms in the hall.
They have greeting events on the first night, and a queer social that admittedly isn’t very well manned but that does let you grab identity stickers and write out your gender expression on a community poster.
Overall, Shibaricon *is* friendly and feels safer and more welcoming than many other spaces, though the attendee count *is* very heavily weighted toward the het-male side so queers and female tops tend to feel uncomfortable simply due to the sheer overwhelming demographics. But the ones that show up do seem to have a good time.
I’ll never forget the time I was having a hard time in a CBB class getting the cock harness onto my dildo so I asked if anyone had a human cock I could borrow. The lovely gal sitting next to me spoke up and said she did, at which all I could ask was if she had balls, because that’s what I needed to make the tie work. She really didn’t, but we gave it a go anyway. And then she topped me later that night. We’re still friends, as I am with *many* of the people and presenters I met there.
So yeah, there’s a lot of guys, and a lot of tops. But I think the event organizers do a pretty good job of making it a welcoming environment for anyone who manages to show up. Even the cops at the top of the escalator to the basement are there for *our* protection, to keep the drunk dart shooting conventioneers out of our space. And the cops love us because we’re polite and well behaved. Man, I wish I could have gone this year…
by maymay
08 Jun 2011 at 16:06
This is a very nice sentiment, lalouve:
Unfortunately, I think this idea has a fundamental logical flaw. My hypothesis for a long time now has been that people who are more put off by such one-sidedness are already not attending these clubs or shops on a regular basis (see also Bitchy Jones), leaving only those who are not put off by it as sustaining patrons. Just think about how many people show up to Scene events once and only once. Like I said before:
In other words, the “mainstream” BDSM subculture is self-selecting, self-reinforcing, and self-delusional.
So it seems to me that a, I don’t even know, NVC-style economic boycott of the sorts you describe is a decidedly losing strategy. Sure, there are fringe elements like you and I motivated enough to participate in the community writ large but who will not be spending our money supporting its prejudices. We are the exception, though; the rest of our kind has already abandoned the community—and quite understandably so!
But many of them do read blogs like this one, and regularly, and there will come a time when this sub-subcultural diaspora will finally coalesce. The days of the “mainstream” BDSM community’s monopoly are sharply numbered. I promise you that.
Anyway, as if on cue, Elaine offered a good view into this exact dynamic:
As for why you felt creeped out at Bent, Elaine:
I wonder if any of the following things contributed to this feeling:
I could go on, but this is just a couple of thoughts from my experience that evening that may offer you some help to “put your finger on” what is so distasteful about Bent to you.
Finally, while I appreciate your admiration:
In reality, I deserve faint praise at best for this. When you feel like you have nothing to lose, it is very easy to stir things up. Since there is nothing I feel the BDSM community can take away from me any longer—I have no hope of it being a sanctuary or belief that it is capable of offering me reward—there is nothing they can frighten me with.
Lose everything, and you give yourself the power to do anything.
by Charity
08 Jun 2011 at 18:18
“those could definitely use more welcoming, friendly, boundaried…”
-Megan Stories
I laughed when I read this. Boundaried. Yup; that be the missing link.
Pingback
by you’re the one for me, fatty | Good Vibrations Magazine
09 Jun 2011 at 17:35
[…] are  And then, even as a woman, these events are rarely about being comfortable in your skin- maymay makes an excellent point about that in his own blog: The following night at the SF Citadel was the inaugural Luscious party, billing itself as being […]
by lalouve
10 Jun 2011 at 02:20
I see your point about problem of influencing the mainstream bdsm scene financially, though I think the situation is even more complex: It is also a question of alternatives.
I ventured out into the bdsm world a grown woman with plenty of confidence and money to spare, which means that I can a)choose where to spend said money and b)tell those that aren’t getting my money why they aren’t. I find this a useful technique for someone with my privilege. While I’m not generally in favour of the market regulating itself (mostly because I don’t, generally, believe it will) I have no qualms about encouraging it to do so when I find it appropriate. I feel that is my responsibility, in fact.
Also, I think a lot of people are not simply already walking away from the clubs etc but instead still attending them because there is nowhere else to go. If you live in a small place (Dublin counts here) there is often only one club. For a lot of people, a creepy club may be better than none. Being excluded from it, for example by being too verbal about the creepiess, can mean exclusion from the entire kinkster network. I have spoken to these people, many of whom adapt to a culture they don’t like because they don’t want to be alone with their kink in a hostile world.
We need more alternatives. We need clubs for those who are creeped out by the mainstream clubs, we need other venues for interaction. We need for people to have actual choice. And I think your blog is helping with that.
by C.
10 Jun 2011 at 15:56
Thanks for this post, and for doing what you do.
I sent you some fan mail for Kink on Tap a while back (and you read it out on air, which just made my day!)
Since then, I’ve become a munch organiser, party host and fledgling event organiser. But all of my prior eventing experience being with church groups (seriously!) so I’m only half making it up as I go along.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know what whenever I plan an event, there’s a voice in the back of my head which goes, “Now, if maymay were here, what would he complain about?” and then I try to change it.
Pingback
by WWMCA? | Feel the Love
10 Jun 2011 at 16:46
[…] it tickled me to no end to see this similar comment on maymay’s latest post: Anyway, I just wanted to let you know what whenever I plan an event, […]
by FeministSub
10 Jun 2011 at 17:57
A few questions:
“the first party expressly welcoming “people of all shapes†asks you to change your shape is just one more example of how deeply BDSM Scene power brokers have internalized and then re-express overculture oppressions, in this case equating hourglass figures to beauty.”
Do you find in general that the SF scene is unwelcoming of “people of all shapes”?
“Since there is nothing I feel the BDSM community can take away from me any longer—I have no hope of it being a sanctuary or belief that it is capable of offering me reward—there is nothing they can frighten me with.”
Honestly, I know you’re angry, and your anger is undoubtedly justified, but do you really feel that the BDSM community is totally unredeemable? As you know, I’m a complete n00b, but I’m also an idealistic organizer type, and it seems to me that it’s pretty much, as Mollena says, a microcosm, not a utopia. And if society as a whole can change, then why not the BDSM community?
by maymay
10 Jun 2011 at 18:16
Good question, FeministSub:
Since I’m of a typically acceptable “shape,” I’ll refer you to people who are better equipped to answer.
Okay, two things.
First, you’re asking me a question based on a premise I have not asserted and I want to point that out lest you come away from my post hearing something I did not say.
Second and despite the first, I don’t believe any community is unredeemable (although I also balk at the savior/saved premise to begin with), simply that there are some who are further gone than others. In light of that, I would caution against the unwise allocation of already scant resources such as one’s time and energy in evaluating the worth of one course of action over another. If it helps you, think of it this way: perhaps you’re a saint, perhaps I’m a sinner.
by FeministSub
10 Jun 2011 at 22:09
“First, you’re asking me a question based on a premise I have not asserted”
Fair point. I suppose I’ve been reading your last few posts as saying that you don’t think there’s anything at all for you in the BDSM community. If I was drawing conclusions that are not accurate, I certainly apologize for that.
“If it helps you, think of it this way: perhaps you’re a saint, perhaps I’m a sinner.”
Well, I’m not religious and I don’t believe in sin, but I get what you’re saying. Even if I were and did, I don’t really think there’s any way you could slice things where I’d be a saint and you’d be a sinner.
So I guess I should have just said this from the beginning – do you think the BDSM community is capable of change and do you feel motivated to be one of the people that helps make that happen?
by maymay
11 Jun 2011 at 01:18
Has not this post already offered my answers to these questions?
by maymay
11 Jun 2011 at 06:36
Thanks for letting me know, C. :) I think that’s pretty neat!
by anonymous
11 Jun 2011 at 13:23
This is unrelated to your post, but I saw someone mention “women and trans kink spaces” and I need to say this:
“Women and trans” spaces are transphobic by their very design. If men of trans experience/history are welcomed in such a space, and men who are not of trans experience/history are excluded, it implies that men of trans experience/history are somehow not “truly” men. I also find in these spaces that women of trans experience/history are often excluded or less welcomed than men– which is also transphobic.
I am so tired of seeing people go on about trans people like we are nothing but political points to argue about. I’m a man and do not go in women’s spaces because I am a man. I don’t go to “women and trans” spaces because that feels disgusting and reductive to me and misogynistic against women of trans experience.
Here are a few links for more information on some of this. I don’t have the energy to educate; I just really needed to get this out because I’m really sick of the bullshit.
http://nodesignation.com/?p=59:
When “women and trans†space allows everyone on a transmale spectrum to attend unquestioned (because even if their trans status is not respected, they would still be welcomed as a woman) yet people on a transfemale spectrum are subjected to scrutiny and those who are not “trans enough†are asked to leave, that’s transmisogyny.
When those same “women and trans†spaces, or even the ones that don’t police entrance, are attended by a dozen or so trans men yet zero or only one or two trans women, that’s transmisogyny. (It obviously indicates that they don’t feel welcome, don’t trust the organizers, or weren’t outreached to.)
And http://takesupspace.wordpress.com/
by BayBoy
13 Jun 2011 at 11:26
We’ve crossed paths at a few local parties lately and I had to chime in finally on your report from Bent and other Cit parties. I’ve never heard the front door greeter position called a bouncer per se, though that is one among a myriad of duties given to that volunteer position, which yes, I too have run.
By greeting people to The Citadel and helping move the line along you acted as you should have as an appropriate ambassador. I love active members of our community, but don’t bash our local entities for doing your job right. What you did is what most other greeters do.
Bent is a space reserved for the younger members of our community just as Mystique is reserved for Femdom couples. This isn’t a continued ghettoization or bullshit idea, it’s to allow people to explore their sexualities further in public without being inundated by male subs or “le creepy old dude” which has a habit of happening due to the, well, large number of male subs and creepy old dudes out there who, in addition, have traditionally posed a nuisance to playing partners.
by maymay
13 Jun 2011 at 15:42
@BayBoy:
Of all the times I went to the Citadel, I can’t recall even one when the greeter introduced themselves to me. I’ve always taken the step of introducing myself to them. Some have been friendlier than others, but none have so much as initiated conversation beyond handing me a registration clipboard. So don’t even try proffering some fairy tale that what I did is what most other greeters do. That’s simply not true.
While I certainly believe my description of a bus driver is how the Citadel would like most “door people” (greeters/bouncers, whatever) to behave, it is not what happens. At least, it is not what has happened to me, and if that’s been my experience, then it’s likely to have been the experiences of others who are not as vocal about it, too. Moreover, I’ve observed that most people at BDSM spaces (including but not limited to the Citadel) display an almost palpable disinclination to introduce folks to one another, which breeds an obscene cliquishness that permeates such spaces.
I haven’t ascertained whether that cliquishness stems from the poor greeting they receive at the door, but that tendency is the bigger problem. The behaviors of greeters/bouncers/whoever I describe here is simply an excellent illustration of how this friendliness could be systemically encouraged or discouraged. If you want to help your peers, perhaps you should print this post out and hand it to all of them.
I know what the professed purpose of category-exclusive parties are. What I said is that the common notion in the BDSM Scene of “youth” as “under 40” is pathetically out of touch with today’s reality. Such a definition may have made sense when groups like TNG were founded, but today it simply serves to reinforce adultist views of young people as “not ready” for BDSM (as linked)—a conversation I actually had at Bent and elided from this post—and simultaneously sabotages “reserved space” for the early- and under-20’s crowd. That group is practically invisible in BDSM spaces because of this idiotic definition of “youth” as “under 40.”
Professing to prize “reserved” spaces is fine (although I don’t), but not when you then use that same tactic to make invisible a group of people whom you hypocritically say you are serving. When “reserved” spaces for youth are defined as 18 to 39, you end up with just as many chickenhawks as non-reserved spaces. Either Bent should actually become a party for the 20’s-only crowd, or it should stop falsely advertising itself as a “youth” party.
Uh huh. And how’s that working out for you? But, seriously.
First, what an interesting grouping “inundated by male subs or ‘let creepy old dude'” you’ve chosen.
Second, and more to the point, considering the fact that lots of “male subs or ‘le creepy old dude[s]'” are evidently still a “nuisance” in BDSM spaces (I bet I was a nuisance to that male top I spoke with), it seems like whatever is being done to keep the problem at bay is not working. (And Bent, as Elaine corroborated, is not immune.) The fact that BDSM’ers keep doing the same stupid bullshit trying to address a problem that they’re obviously fucking awful at resolving is a sign of their ignorance (you’re addressing symptoms but never causes) and their insanity (you’re doing the same thing expecting a different result).
On a personal note: while I don’t see either this post or this comment as “bashing our local entities,” you might, and that’s fine by me. But don’t for one minute think you’re going to dissuade me from speaking my mind by telling me “don’t” do something. Ever. Understood?
Which parties were those? You’ve got pictures at The Upper Floor on FetLife, and you say you got to Bent “regularly,” so was that where we met and were there other events where we met, too? Regardless, I sincerely look forward to crossing paths with you again at future parties. ;)
by Paul
13 Jun 2011 at 18:39
First off, thanks for being a proactive greeter at the door. I think that’s a great behavior for other folks to emulate.
Like other commenters, I’m very familiar with that position and never heard of it referred to as bouncer, but I will share with you my personal experience with you greeting me.
You didn’t know me, but I knew you. I /present/ as a cis male het top. When you asked me if I was here for Transmission, I was taken aback for a microsecond and had to process the background context, because *I* felt you were judging me as not queer enough. I felt we were both on guard for a good 20 seconds there, until I introduced myself to you “Hey, aren’t you maymay? Nice to meet you!”
In a sense, you were acting as a bouncer. Not the “throw them out on the street brawny dude” but the “Are you sure this is the party you want to be at?” I felt decidedly unwelcome, and if I hadn’t known that I belong there, and owned the fact that I was being sensitive, I would have had a bad taste in my mouth about the Citadel.
It’s easy to see other people’s exclusionary behavior, but really difficult for us to see it in ourselves. People have their issues (you feeling like other people value you less because you’re male and submissive, or me feeling queer-colonizing because I love my gender role), and are going to be exceptionally sensitive.
In all inclusive spaces, it’s important to make *everyone* feel wanted and cared about, and almost all of us do have sensitive issues. You’re absolutely right, that initial greeting, if offensive, can ruin things for an evening.
The doorperson’s job is a hard one. They need to be both welcoming -and- help people make an informed decision about what to expect in the venue in general and at that particular party.
It’s really important for the doorperson to utilize their instinctive pattern recognition (“Hey, that person might not be a good fit? Maybe we should talk first?”) yet maintain compassion and a welcoming behavior, even if someone’s presentation is something you might be inclined to label as outsider.
When all else fails, your partner, the cashier, can chime in too… you can use institutional knowledge to your favor.
by Paul
13 Jun 2011 at 18:48
One last thing — all of the art at the Citadel was either donated or is there on exhibition to be sold. There are at least two, possibly four, large paintings still hanging there involving powerful men worshiping goddess women–they were done by my friend Dragon, and he had the previous art exhibit there (when his stuff was being exhibited, the whole dungeon except for the stairwell was full of them).
I think it would be fantastic to have less-traditional art to hang. If you find someone willing to donate something, I know they’ll hang it.
Humans are pattern recognition creatures. Noticing the thing that’s “wrong” is a survival trait. However, it doesn’t improve the quality of your life if all you do is notice the things that are pissing you off to the exclusion of that which you love.
by tomio_of_delila
13 Jun 2011 at 18:49
Reading this post, and all of the comments, make me feel a bit…displaced? I’ll try to explain.
I’ve never enjoyed the club scene. I don’t particularly like crowds, and I really don’t like them when it is dark and loud.
Beyond that, I’m no part exhibitionist. And I have no desire to play with someone with whom I do not share an emotional attachment. Nor do I really have any desire to watch others play.
So where does someone like this fit into the BDSM “community?”
I honestly don’t know.
by maymay
13 Jun 2011 at 19:44
Interesting, and duly noted. Thanks, Paul.
That being said, TransMission was specifically a trans-centric space:
Therefore, your presentation as het-cismale is (almost) as much “queer-colonizing” as my presentation as bi-cismale was. As good allies, when you or I are in trans-centric spaces, we both should damn well be sensitive to feelings like that! (So, good on you.) Also, like I’ve just said in this thread, I dislike any categorically-“reserved” space because I think it’s inherently problematic, as you’ve just demonstrated wonderfully. But in an imperfect world, it’s not without its benefits, and at least in the case of Transmission, it was not my space to orchestrate.
I’d like to see those paintings so I can judge them myself, because a description like “involving powerful men worshipping goddess women” sounds exactly like the kind of bullshit double-speak that’s actually about female domination, not about male submission.
Moreover, let me make this clear: I want an equal representation. 49% to 51% is not going to cut it. Unless and until I am just as likely to see images of men as images of women, I’m not going to cut anyone any slack. The fact that you can cite exceptions to the general rule of bottom-y, naked, skinny, white women being on display and then ask me to do the legwork to fix the problem myself is my goddamn point; it doesn’t earn any brownie points. Instead, it earns a link to the “If You Won’t Educate Me How Can I Learn” section of Derailing for Dummies.
Preaching to the choir, man. You think I recognize problems to make my life harder? No, I do it to make other people’s lives better. Why is this such a hard thing for people to understand?
You wanna earn respect for making things better? Suck it up and start noticing and speaking up about the problems. And yes, noticing and speaking up about problems doesn’t immediately make your life easier, it makes it harder. That’s my whole fucking point!
If you’re not willing to do that hard work then, respectfully, sit down and STFU.
by Paul
13 Jun 2011 at 20:35
Is this a conversation you want to continue in the comments, or by e-mail? I don’t care which, but we should continue it.
I belong at Transmission, and it’s my party, even if, for a few seconds, I was taken aback by feeling you didn’t think I did.
I see and concede your point about exclusionary parties. It would be great if no parties were exclusionary. However, I’ve yet to see parties that cater to groups who feel they are oppressed minorities be successful. In other words, it’s the people who feel most underrepresented and most ostracized asking for exclusionary zones. Many times this is because of _real_ problems (chickenhawks, creepy wanker dudes, trannychasers, dykechasers, faghags, homophobes) and even more often, it’s because of the PERCEPTION of problems that don’t always exist. All it takes is for one person >thinking< someone gave them an "ewww" look at a "an all inclusive party" and people, who are already sensitive, won't return.
Additionally, while sex and politics are bedfellows, I've never seen someone successfully legislate politics into sex. If someone is looking for a particular environment, they're going to go to a specialty party that caters to the demographic they feel most at home (or lucky) in.
You know the perennial debate: "Why doesn't the men's community come out to pansexual events?" Because it doesn't work for them. Why do the women stay away? Do you want to educate their sexuality? People have biases, and they come into play even when it's not appropriate.
For example, "powerful men submitting to the goddess" my description of the dynamic and vision that the artist and his partner have. However, it's as much about his submission as her splendor, they are a pair working together.
Your reaction to my description included your own bias, and you made a judgement that it's all about femdom, which is something you dislike. You only narrowly stepped back from the cliff by saying you'd have to see the pictures for yourself, but there was a judgement in there.
Everyone has reactions, it's natural. Judgements though, are what get folks in trouble.
My hat is off to you for advocating for your views. Being an effective advocate requires a mix of agitation and compassion. I want you to be effective. Like many of people who are hurt, angry, and upset that the world doesn't value them they way they want to be valued, I see anger and baggage getting in the way of your message.
Your anger provides fire and motivation, great! Use it, and channel it, but when you write, you may have to choose between venting your spleen, making a point, or advocating your cause.
It's a long war. Keep your powder dry.
Paul
p.s. You can never respectfully tell someone to STFU. Either be direct and disrespectful, or accept that the other person works in different ways and shares different views.
by BayBoy
13 Jun 2011 at 20:48
Tomio, you may want to check out Pink! at Mission Control. It’s pansexual, has a kink room and is very inviting. Most of my time spent there is conversing with my fellow community members.
Maymay, you use I statements in six of the first seven sentences of your first two paragraphs. I’m finding this to be more about you than any elements of our community.
What exactly do you mean by “..of all the times I went to the Citadel?” I’ve been a little bit more distant from the Cit lately, but I really have only known of you through friends until now.
I suggest you talk to Chey and Stef- they may be able to disuade you of their “idiotic” ideas, as you put it.
Younger members of the community are in-fact “ready for BDSM,” that’s why they are there. the reason for a TNG party is not to have a Lite party, but as I said in my statement, to keep the older pervs away. This isn’t a particular trend dating from the days of the beginning of gay leather, from my understanding, it’s fairly contemporary.
I’m not sure how many Bents you’ve been to, or Citadel parties for that matter, but aside from a few trusted members who are in relationships with younger folk, the party really is under 35. I should know, I’ve worked nearly every one for the last year.
The group of people you say we make “invisible” are older members of the community with plenty of other parties. This is the only TNG party from San Francisco to San Jose.
Again, I wish that you would stop calling our institutions “stupid bullshit.” You aren’t adding to the conversation, you’re insulting your audience. We won’t be friends if I see you in person and I’m not returning to your small blog to be talked down to.
Asher and Char, our wonderful party hosts for TransMission are friends of mine and while I can’t speak for them, I find a great deal of hypocrisy in your attack on Bent’s policies and defense of your “bouncer” mentality at TransMission. I assure you I was not “queer-colonizing” when I went to volunteer time with my friends there.
If you’re working to gain statistically equal representation of exactly 50% (art is it this time?).. well, you’re going to be waiting a long time. I’m an activist too, but in a collaborative environment like we have, we all have to meet in the middle at some point.
I find it amusing that you added my partner on Fetlife after attending a Mission Control party where we last crossed paths, despite your abhorrence of our online third space. Think about conversing with John Baku about some of the issues you have, rather than spreading your attacks here. We do suck it up and speak about the problems around us, I assure you. I just wish that you would lower your vitriol so that we could listen to some of what you have to say.
by maymay
13 Jun 2011 at 21:41
@Paul and @BayBoy:
Wow, you both earned a link to the “You’re Damaging Your Cause By Being Angry” section on Derailing for Dummies. That’s 2 links to Derailing for Dummies in 1 thread so far! Wanna try for three times a charm? ;)
by Paul
13 Jun 2011 at 21:56
I’ll take compassion over gratuitous self-immolation any day of the week.
I hope your anger keeps your lonely universe warm. End of participation.
by maymay
13 Jun 2011 at 22:05
Oh, Paul, this is such a perfect comment for so many reasons. :) It’s precisely the point I’m making. Why would you self-immolate?
Don’t worry, I’m way ahead of you.
by KateTheGreat
13 Jun 2011 at 23:36
I greeted the SHIT out of you and everyone else at Pink! the other night between the hours of 10-12. You added me as a friend on FetLife, that kink ghetto, shortly thereafter. So clearly I’m doing something right by you.
The Citadel is not, and doesn’t sell itself as, a cuddly place. Mission Control has more of a friendly feel. I prefer the vibe at MC, but other people prefer the Cit. And maybe that has something to do with the warmth of one and the relative coolness/coldness of the other.
You’re coming at us with so many negatives in this piece, Maymay. I see a lot of talk about what’s wrong, and not so much about how to make it right. Oh sure, you try to be a bus driver instead of a bouncer. And that’s great. But I don’t think BayBoy’s incorrect to see (at least some of) what you’ve written here as an attack on a community and a venue that we both greatly enjoy.
I will continue to greet people with a big, drunken WHATTUP BITCHES when they come through the door at MC. But that simply wouldn’t be appropriate at The Cit, and that’s groovy too. Just because something doesn’t suit your sensibilities doesn’t mean it’s wrong or invalid. I think that’s an important thing to keep in mind in this community, and in life in general.
by maymay
14 Jun 2011 at 03:56
Yes, I thought you did a great job at the door of Mission Control, Kate, and I even praised Mission Control for this in the piece I wrote about my experience there:
This post, however, is not about Mission Control because I wrote it before I ever set foot in that venue.
Well, like you told me in person, a pretend drunk, while a real slightly-buzzed. And I think that’s just great. I look forward to seeing you at Mission Control next time I’m there. :)
by Asher
14 Jun 2011 at 08:00
Jesus, MayMay, where to begin.
1.Your criticism of the role of bouncer. You begin with a racist image of a scary black man, then say how absurd it is to have a bouncer who does not fit that image? Sure, this isn’t the meat of your argument, but it’s fucked up just the same and I can’t let it slide.
As far as how “bouncer†plays out at the Citadel—usually we just call it “door.†Or “greeter.†“Bouncer†is more a playful nickname than anything else. And incidentally, the way you fulfilled that role, greeting people and making them feel welcome? Is exactly what we try to encourage door people at the Citadel to do anyway.
2. TransMission is not for “trans and generally queerer people.†TransMission is for trans people and whoever we want to play with. And hey, news flash: some trans people are straight. Some trans people want to play with straight cis people.
The bit about you relating more to trans people because you are sick of male dom/fem sub dynamics? Doesn’t get you off the hook and in fact makes me roll my eyes, the way I usually roll my eyes when some cis person has some super special reason for “understanding†trans people. You a cis man, with cis privilege, and you going around at TransMission apparently challenging other people’s right to be there is not activism, that is entitlement.
You do not have more of a right to be at TransMission, just because you see yourself as some flavor of queer, than a straight cis man does, because TransMission is not for cis queer people. I don’t want it to turn into a party predominated by cis queer people with a few trans tokens thrown in. We have Invasion for queers of all genders. TransMission is for trans people of all orientations and their partners, who may be cis and may indeed be straight.
Queer =/= trans, trans=/= queer.
3. Finally, your comment about men dressed as women bottoming is presumptive and a bit disturbing in a post which features discussion of a trans party. I realize that you weren’t talking about TransMission—at least I hope you weren’t!—but you have to understand how those two images go together.
I hope you can begin to see where your entitlement is creeping in. I, personally, as a host of TransMission, do not want some cis guy white-knighting and chasing people off. For fuck’s sake, let us remember that you can’t tell who is trans just by looking at them. Your attitude that apparently you can spot the cis dudes is in fact transphobic and in direct violation of the TransMission party rules.
I’m really disappointed, but I have enough confidence left in you that perhaps you can see where you are going wrong here.
by SnowdropExplodes
14 Jun 2011 at 13:57
@ Bayboy:
Well, you know. Most people I know consider 50% to be “the middle”. It’s a pretty good point to meet, I think.
It’s worth remembering, too, that there’s a saying (IIRC Maymay is fond of it) to the effect that it is only the unreasonable people who will ever change anything, so it’s worth being unreasonable. Unless there are people who continue incessantly to push for 50% representation and refuse to stop until it’s there, then there will never be a good enough world.
In reply to Paul’s points (not to Paul himself, since he said he’s not participating any more):
Without having seen the pictures, I feel as though I can still hazard a guess why Maymay might have made his judgement about them. It’s this word “goddess” (and later, the word “splendor” to describe the goddess) that seems to imply putting the woman as the focus of the image, regardless of how much the interaction portrayed might be “a pair working together”. The descriptions you give imply a “male gaze” centring the female form and relegating the male to the periphery.
by tomio_of_delila
14 Jun 2011 at 16:18
I’m not in the SF area…on the east coast, actually. But thanks for the invite.
From peeking at the website, though, I’m not sure how much it would appeal to me.
Sooooo – if my Mistress wanted to go, I’d go. But it honestly doesn’t sound like anything I’d actually look forward to. Again, I don’t like crowds, as a general rule and I really don’t want to do any “playful exploration” in a public setting, nor watch others do so.
by maymay
14 Jun 2011 at 16:27
Hey Asher! First, thanks for reading my post. I’m glad to know you’ve found your way here! :)
Second, I’m sorry to have offended you with it. I feel I’m treading on thin ice, but I’m going to try to explain where I think there have been miscommunications. I feel like you understand why and how that possibility exists better than most people.
I didn’t connect the one (“racist imagery”) with the other (“to have a bouncer”). I do see how it could be read that way, though, so I apologize I didn’t address that ambiguity more clearly; in any communication, there will always be some elisions. What I wanted to express was that I don’t fit that stereotype.
Also, for the record, I am (and was, before your comment) very aware that kind of imagery is racist. Invoking that was the point. I know joking with stereotypes can be reclamatory and perhaps that’s what people using the “playful nickname” are doing, but the nickname didn’t seem appropriate to me for any reason, especially if my description of a “bus driver” is what the Citadel wants its volunteers to do, anyway.
I’m aware that TransMission welcomes everyone and, like I failed but probably should have said to Paul, I did not judge people’s “queer-enough-ness” at the door to determine whether or not to let them in. That’d be, well, bigoted and stupid and, frankly, beneath all of us.
I’ve read TransMission’s description numerous times and it, as I’ve quoted a couple of times now, reads:
This is the same description as on the FetLife event. That makes it very clear that anyone is welcome, so long as they are friendly to trans people. This longer description doesn’t seem, to me, to contradict my own much shorter but purposefully linked-to-the-longer version, but maybe that’s because in my book “friendly to trans people” makes one “queerer” (if I was forced to use a single word) than not.
This is what I think Paul was referencing when he said he was worried about “colonizing” the space. Knowing that you felt this way (because, if I remember correctly, you told me you did when we spoke at Invasion), this is also what I was referring to when I said he and I, as cis people, should rightly be sensitive to. If I’m wrong, and being sensitive to this is not a good way to be in TransMissions’s space, then I’d be grateful to a pointer where I can learn more. Maybe there’s some literature about TransMission I’m missing? (Maybe it’s on FetLife? :)
Since I did not challenge people’s right to be there, nor did I do anything to purposefully “chas[e] people off” (unless starting conversations about BDSM spaces’s use of ambient imagery and so forth, for instance, counts), nor do I think I can spot cis dudes, I’m curious where you’re getting the information that I did or feel I can. Was it Paul’s comment, above? Or my response? If so, I hope I’ve clarified that. If it was from some other source, or if you’ve got further questions, please let me know.
I like you, personally, and as a host of TransMission, and so I’m distressed you’d think I’d do any of those things you described me doing. At TransMission that night, you were extremely busy, so we never got a chance to talk, which I clearly recall because I tried to introduce you to several of the people I invited who’d never been before (two of whom, if it matters, identify as trans people).
No, this wasn’t about Transmission, I was speaking in general terms. That being said, this is also a very personal trigger, and I think I made that clear in this post, too.
The trigger has to do with how normative that power- and gender- orientation combination is in BDSM spaces, not with trans identity. The parallel I drew is not well-explained here, and is related to some thinking I’ve been doing elsewhere, so maybe it only made sense in my head (and that means it’s a topic for another post, sometime in the future).
All that said, I’m sorry for the way I phrased that comment; especially when taken as part of this post, I probably could have been even clearer about delineating that comment’s context.
Well, thanks for the vote of confidence! :) I don’t know if I’ve made you more or less confident in me with this reply, but obviously I hope for the former. And, either way, I hope I’ll get a chance to speak with you about this further in person when next we meet.
by Char C.
16 Jun 2011 at 10:12
Hi Maymay. I wanted to add a few things to the discussion here.
First, the use of “queerer†is odd. You’ve already quoted the promo blurb for TransMission. It lists a number of different genders but somewhat conspicuously does not mention orientations or sexualities. The intended point is that this is a party for any trans person. The presence of any cis person is contingent upon our desire for you to be there.
Also, I want to echo Asher’s point that it is incredibly transphobic to suggest that one must be some flavor of queer to be attracted to a (binary) trans person. Again, TransMission is not a orientation-themed party, and het trans people and their partners (be they trans or cis) need to be made welcome.
I must admit that I had trouble- meaning, I gasped in shock- when coming across the “men-dressed-as-women-who-are-bottoming†line in your post. Reading the comments, I now understand that this is a personal trigger for you, but that was not clear in the op, and having it come just after your description of taking your friends downstairs during TransMission leads to the worst kind of misunderstanding. Being fcamab, sometimes feminine, and sometimes a bottom, this was personally very insulting and painful to read.
Finally, I want to apologize to you. Having the door person called a “bouncer†is very much tongue—in-cheek. Insofar as the Citadel has a bouncer at all, it’s August or one of the party hosts. As a host, it was my responsibility to make your duties clear to you, and I obviously failed in that regard. I’m glad that you did your job so fantastically without clear instruction, and I’m glad that you wrote about it here. I’ll certainly keep this in mind, do better in the future, and pass along word to other hosts that this is an area we need to focus more on.
by Asher
16 Jun 2011 at 15:35
RE: Bouncer
I still don’t really see what you were trying to do. You seem to argue that the fact that you do not fit the racist stereotype of a bouncer means that you cannot serve as a bouncer, which is ludicrous and still problematic. I am quite friendly with many bouncers in the South Of Market, most of whom work at multiple clubs, almost none of whom fit the stereotype which you invoke. So, what’s your point? And why are you invoking such racist imagery to make it?
I also absolutely disagree that being “friendly to trans people†makes one queer. I come from the school of thought that queerness is about sexuality. Sure, it can be about gender, and it can be about politics, and usually it’s about all of those things at once, but a straight person who tolerates queer and trans people is not “queer†by association. And a straight cis person cannot be considered queer for dating a binary trans person of their preferred gender (i.e. a straight man is not queerer for dating a trans woman).
I find it interesting that it’s always queer cis people who interpret TransMission as a “queer†party. I have never called it that. None of the hosts have ever called it that. It’s a trans centric party. I don’t know how many times I have to say it—trans =/= queer and queer =/= trans. If there are queers at TransMission it is because they are trans or are there with or hoping to meet trans people.
It also irritates me that you talk about “queer colonizing†in the context of this party because, ironically, by acting as if TransMission is a queer space, you are doing what so many cis queers do and claiming a trans space as a queer one—“colonizing†may be too strong a word, but in the sense you use it, it’s fully appropriate.
Invasion is the all genders queer party. It exists specifically so that TransMission doesn’t have to serve as a queer party.
I think you still really need to unpack some assumptions about “men dressed as women†and how those people may identify. “Forced fem†type play has been a stepping stone to transgender identity for many people. And many a trans woman has been accused of being a “man in a dress.†It’s a well-known transphobic trope and you need to be bloody careful how you use that imagery.
(On a side note, I am curious about the way you use the term “trigger.†As a person with post traumatic stress disorder, to be “triggered†means something very specific to me. Broadly, it means an experience of mortal terror induced by some trauma-related association. I notice a lot of people using it in a very different way, to mean simply “upset.†I find that type of usage extremely appropriative and ignorant. I don’t know how you are using it and you have absolutely no obligation to disclose your mental health status to me or anyone else. Just something to think about.)
I also frankly think your agenda with regard to representation of male submissives is binarist and cissexist. It bothers me that at TransMission you were going around saying “Hey, there are too many female submissives in the art on the walls†rather than “Holy fuck, look at all the BINARY CIS PEOPLE in the art on the walls.†It bothers me a LOT.
So, while I do think there may have been some miscommunications, I also think you may be expressing some serious privilege subconsciously and not examining the impact of your words. This is not about tone, by the way, but about content.
by Q
16 Jun 2011 at 20:29
Feel free to ignore me if I’m off track with this, but it seems like a big miscommunication is the end of this line:
> Be you transgender, transexual, MTF, FTM, M2M, F2F, gender queer, gender fluid, gender fucked, gender non-conforming, or simply a friend of transfolks, you are welcome.
Reading it without knowing the intent, “a friend of transfolks” could be interpreted specifically (friend of someone attending) or more broadly (accepting the group as a whole). From the comments it sounds like only the specific meaning was intended, so perhaps it could be reworded to be clearer.
by A. Nony. Mouse
17 Jun 2011 at 11:18
There is so much anger in this that I hesitate to even try and reply. Also, for the sake of not having personal information about me used as fodder to create a verbal attack rather than the words I type here, I shall remain anonymous.
There are indeed many submissive women at play parties; that said, I have also seen submissive men playing with others- sorry I don’t have the exact stats or date (didn’t think it would be necessary), so the only Link is this one.
Perhaps this is because there are more submissive women active in the community/that choose to go to these parties? Perhaps the parties you don’t attend are chock full of submissive men? Perhaps it is some giant conspiracy!?
You seem to dislike the compartmentalization (forgive me if this is an incorrect understanding of what you have said) of groups of people into various parties; I actually am in somewhat of an agreement with you re Bent. I have been once or twice, and was not a huge fan- mostly due to the noise level and the feeling everyone was there to show off/be seen by everyone else- but also because I question having a party designated for a certain age group. Though, after talking to some older kinksters who expressed a dislike for it, seemingly because they wanted to play with the younguns and were upset, I kind of got the desire for a space with people in one’s own age-group.
Sorry again about not having a link to the transcripts of these conversations, but these links should prove fun.
Hm, where was I? I must commend you on typing such long diatribes and manifestos, I can barely keep up with all of the links, and am doing my best to maintain somewhat of an adequate level so you will take me seriously.
So you take offense/are frustrated by theme parties/events that in your view cut off members of the kink/BDSM community because they “ghettoize” everyone, and further insulate them (kink community members) from becoming more mainstream/part of society? Is that what it is? This idea intrigues me, partially because I don’t know if mainstream society really wants to hear what I’m doing with thirty clothespins, a rubber chicken, and seven q-tips on a Friday night; possibly as little as I want to hear about my friends having missionary-style reproductive sex that same night.
Oh well. I am fairly certain you will respond with something of length and diction able to rival my master’s thesis, so I shall leave this final link and wish you a good weekend!
by Asher
17 Jun 2011 at 17:44
Q– not exactly. I think the specific meaning I intend when I say “a friend of trans folks” is “either attending with or open to meeting and playing with trans folks.” Basically, the minimum requirement for cis people attending TransMission, as far as I am concerned, is being open to playing with a trans person. Anyone who would not consider this should not come.
by maymay
17 Jun 2011 at 18:46
I’m sorry that this reply is so long. I’m choosing verbosity over brevity in an effort to avoid the risks of explanations I fear may otherwise be too incomplete; ordinarily, I would use (external) links to hint that I’d like you to interpolate the linked phrase or its referent with the text behind the link, but I’m going to forego that this time to avoid further potential confusion. This comment is my attempt to explain to you why I feel confident we’re mostly miscommunicating rather than disagreeing.
When you said:
I’m reminded of times when I’ve been offended by something and then felt like my offense, and subsequent feelings of anger, were not validated by the person or group of people whose actions or words offended me. So I want to be very careful that I don’t end up doing that thing where I make you feel like your offense is trivial or invalid and I hope I’m able to do that. With regards to your offense, I know it does not matter that what I said in this post read to you differently than I intended it to generally read and so I genuinely apologize.
At the same time, I also very much stand by what I said, and if you’re willing to read on, I hope I’ll accurately explain myself to you this go-around. After all, the initial post was not written for your eyes only and as I know you know, it’s difficult to express ideas to a diverse audience in one and only one way. This (admittedly wordy) reply, however, is intended for you, Asher, and no one else despite being publicly visible.
You wrote:
I hope you’ll believe me when I say that I’m aware of this, I’m not just saying that because someone told me so or because I read it in some booklet. I’m aware of this because this is precisely my personal experience. When I referenced “my own gender exploration” in the post above, I was referring to my own history questioning whether or not I am a trans woman. A big part of that was feminization-type play of all stripes. To this day, I’ve retained some aspects of what I enjoyed from those experiences, even in my day-to-day life.
After some serious soul-searching, I realized that it was not, in fact, a trans identity with which I related but rather a masculinely sexually submissive one. That was a personal realization, and I do not mean to belittle someone else’s journey to self-discovery, regardless where that journey takes them. What I am saying is that my experiences showed me that the start of the path some people may take to a transgender identity is manifestly similar to the start of the path some people may take to a submissive man’s identity (and, conceivably, a dominant woman’s).
I want to be clear here that I fully acknowledge a trans identity and a submissive man’s identity are not the same, nor are the experiences, challenges, or oppressions these identities face in any way identical. But they do, in at least my case and I suspect for many others as well, manifest similarly in a number of ways, by which I literally mean they share characteristics that make them appear like one another. This means that on the early “stepping stones,” they are difficult for some people to tell apart, sometimes even for the individual stepping on those stones. Again, I do not speak hypothetically here, I speak from and of my own experience.
So, when I said in this post “men-dressed-as-women-who-are-bottoming,” I specifically did not intend to reference trans identity. Rather, I purposefully intended it to reference men—self-identified men—who, for whatever reason, choose to dress as women. Again, to be doubly clear, I did not reference trans women.
That being said, I absolutely understand why, in the context of this post, that statement may not be as clear to others as it is to me. For that ambiguity and for the relative carelessness with which I placed this statement in a potentially unclear context, I truly apologize. You are 100% correct when you say that:
I also feel that, especially considering the personal history I’ve just shared and knowing that my blog is read by numerous trans women, I arguably should have been more careful about the way this particular phrase was inserted in the context of this post. Please accept my apologies for being thoughtless in that regard, and thanks for so clearly articulating why that’s so dangerous.
Another piece of this puzzle important for me to point out here is that, at the risk of laying myself far barer than I’d like in this comment thread, when I discuss my “personal trigger” around seeing “the wall” of femininely-presenting individuals at a BDSM club, this, too, does not reference trans identity. The fact of the matter is that seeing an over-abundance of any feminine-and-submissive presentations (trans-identified or not) is now emotionally painful for me. That’s my problem—I say this is a “very personal trigger” because I want to fully own how incredibly fucked up it is that someone else’s (hopefully) authentic expressions could result in such utterly irrational and out-of-proportion responses from me.
By way of example, I have a friend who hates sushi so much she has to leave the room when someone eats it. What she does not do is tell them to stop eating it. Likewise, I do not interfere with scenes or tell people how to play. They have as much right to be who they are, whoever they are, as I do. What I do, however, is avoid play spaces. That’s why I stay in the “social” areas of BDSM clubs, like I described in this post.
What I want a general audience to take away from my writing is an understanding that the “irrational pain” I’ve just described to you is a response to abusive cultural indoctrination dictating that femininity is inherently submissive while masculinity is inherently dominant. In much the same way that I hope to ensure you do not feel like I am invalidating your offense, I would like people to acknowledge that this pain I feel is valid and that the cultural abuse from which it stems needs to end. To me, this feels like I’m a young child who was burned by a stove, and this overwhelmingly prevalent indoctrination has burned me. It now hurts whenever I encounter it, and because it is everywhere, including the BDSM Scene, I am often enraged at being forced to re-live this pain.
Of course, it is not every submissive woman’s nor dominant man’s intent to hurt me, and especially not personally. I’m smart enough and socially-aware enough to understand this. However, especially because it is the case that relatively very few people ever acknowledge the extent of when it comes to power-orientation, presentations of submissive femininity and dominant masculinity are privileged, it is people who I perceive as presenting themselves in that fashion whom I am most likely to feel emotional pain around.
The point is that, to my mind, this is not directly related to issues of trans identity. The only reason trans-ness was mentioned in this post was because I wrote about the above issue (partly) through the vehicle offered by my experience at TransMission.
So, to be clear, although I see now how it is not clear to many people, this post is not and was never intended to be about your party, or Bent, or any particular event. It’s about the macro-culture of the BDSM Scene as a whole. And, in my view, the BDSM Scene as a whole is all kinds of deeply offensive “-ist” things, such as being obscenely ageist, racist, sexist, and domist.
Which brings me to another miscommunication I feel occurred. You asked:
As I’m sure you know, there is a profound difference between individual, isolated experiences and aggregate, systemic tendencies. However, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to speak of one without speaking of the other since they are related. (“The personal is political,” yadda yadda yadda.) This post, in as thoughtfully a way as I could manage it, took the opportunity to illustrate the aggregate by discussing the individual.
My discussion of “bouncers” was not a discussion of the Transmission party but rather an useful allegory describing the aggregate culture of the BDSM Scene. I used the term in this post because when I heard my volunteer role being called that (whether jokingly or not), the allegory clicked in my mind and I deemed it a useful illustration of my viewpoint. I assert, as I have for a long time, that BDSM venues and the majority of individuals often at those venues do a poor job of being welcoming to newcomers.
Overall, the BDSM Scene seems to me to take every opportunity it can to present itself with an attitude that metaphorically eyes people up and down and says, “are you sure you belong here?” I feel that newcomers are particularly sensitive to this, and I feel that way because I remember what it was like to be a newcomer. This cultural attitude unnecessarily turns people away. I understand that some BDSM venues (notably the Citadel) do not actually want to turn people away, but what I am saying in this post is that, taken in aggregate, I view the self-presentation of BDSM culture as though it were a “bouncer,” doing exactly that.
The reason I invoked racist imagery is because newcomers to the community, who have no frame of reference other than the racist culture with which they are familiar, symbolically react to this self-presentation in much the same way they react when they see a “big, scary Black man” walking on the street towards them. They experience a fear that should not actually exist in a just world. And I think this analogy works on multiple levels because, let’s face it, the vast majority of people who even remotely approach having the privilege of coming to a BDSM club are white!
Admittedly, perhaps this was a point lost in my post because it was simply too complex for me to clearly articulate in as few words as I used. My posts are often chock-full of thoughts that I’ve arrived at after an enormous mental effort. I do not mean that to excuse poorly chosen words, but rather to highlight what could be the reason for a possible mistake I made in trying to author this piece; at some point, a blog post simply has too many ideas in it to be clearly communicated and it is my job as an author to find a balance between articulating complexity and offering clarity.
If I failed to do that in this case, then again, I apologize. That being said, I stand firmly behind the points I (thought I) made. I hope this answers your question about that.
You also had another concern:
I do not feel that I acted “as if TransMission is a queer space” and I also believe that I did not act in that way when I was at the party. So, here, I’m afraid I may not fully understand what you’re saying because, having already expressed in a couple earlier comments in this thread that I was intentionally mindful of TransMission as specifically a trans-centric space, your irritation is clear evidence of a miscommunication to me. Of course, at the root of this miscommunication may be my ignorance and, if so, I’ll apologize for that, take my lumps, and again request resources where I can learn more. I also know it’s not your job to educate me but, like I said before, I’d be grateful to you if you chose to throw a link or two my way.
That being said, the other cause of this miscommunication may be that you and I simply do use the word “queer” to sometimes mean different things in different contexts. You wrote:
Here, I think I used the word “queer” in this post and earlier in this thread more generally than you like for it to be used, and I simply disagree with you that my usage was incorrect. In re-reading our exchange, it seems to me that you’ve re-contextualized my words several times and took some offense under the presumption that I wrote a post dissing your party or behaving there in a way that diminished the importance of its existence as a trans-centric space. And again, I do not in any way want to belittle you for feeling that way; I very much understand how things that have hurt you, whether they were intended by others or not, fucking hurt, and so I fully and sincerely and profusely apologize to you for causing you hurt!
Fact is, I’m aware that TransMission is important so, personally, the stakes are higher here because it is the only trans-centric play party (at least, the only one I know about) where trans folks get to predominate. Since in my experience trans folks are one of the groups of people who most quickly understand the way sexual submission and femininity are incorrectly culturally coupled, that was one of the reasons I, personally, felt more comfortable at TransMission than any other party I’ve been to at the Citadel. Similarly, that’s exactly why I went around the party (as I do at most BDSM parties these days, which was the point of this post) doing, basically, what you described as:
As mentioned in this post, the conversations I started about that were, in my estimation, very well-received. My plan is to go to as many parties as possible and do that (in my own words and in my own way, of course). I went to “youth” parties, I went to “queer” parties, I went to “threesome” parties, I went to “trans” parties and I’ll be going to every single other party I can afford in order to do this. And the reason for that isn’t because I want to denigrate or subsume the purpose of the party but because I understand that, in the words of Aboriginal activists from Australia, every other group’s liberation is bound up in mine.
So, while I want to humbly acknowledge your frustration that I would, as you wrote:
I am disappointed that you seem to resent my actions rather than welcome them. Perhaps this reaction stems from the earlier miscommunication where you (IMHO) erroneously believed my intent was to colonize TransMission? Perhaps it has more to do a wish for TransMission to be a play party, which I’m only guessing at because you wrote to Q:
Either way, I invite you to tell me more about why this bothers you so much.
For the record and if it matters, I have no intention to play publicly at any party at all for the time being, despite certain strong desires to do exactly that, but this has more to do with where I am, personally, than with TransMission or Bent or any other specific party (although, as this post tried to articulate in my own way, “the personal is political” and all that). Again, to be clear and if it matters: I have enjoyed playing with trans people publicly and privately in the past and fully hope to enjoy doing so publicly again at some point, when I am ready to play publicly at all.
I also want to be clear that I do not expect to be treated nor want you to treat me like some special snowflake. I feel a particular kinship with trans identity even though I do not share it for the reasons I’ve explained above, and I am also aware that this means nothing other than what I said it does: I feel a certain, limited affinity for the trans experience, nothing more and nothing less.
With that, I think I’ve addressed everything in your comment. If I missed something, feel free to leave another comment asking me to clarify. And again, I’m sorry this is so long; I normally use links to “say more with less,” but like I said when I started, I think this caused problems and I want to avoid the possibility of that, this time.
Thanks again for reading and for offering me your perspective. :)
by maymay
17 Jun 2011 at 18:47
That’s a very accurate observation, A. Nony. Mouse. For the record, I sometimes use my comments area to vent—it is my blog’s comments area, after all. Beyond simply being something I feel I sometimes need to do for emotional reasons, I also think that sometimes showing emotions, including anger, is useful, so I don’t always shy away from it.
With regards to the rest of your comment, I gotta say I find its substance mostly ignorant:
Firstly, there does not need to be an actual conspiracy for a situation to exhibit the effects of one.
Secondly, if you don’t understand the fact that the situation you describe is informed by the issues I write about at length, then we have nothing more to say to one another right now.
Except, that is, I enjoyed the way you seemed to parody how I use links. I found that amusing. :) For what it’s worth, I liked the Link cosplay more than the images of sausages because I think Link and Zelda are awesome.
by Sunshine Love
17 Jun 2011 at 20:04
So, you addressed this comment to Asher specifically, but I’m gonna respond to part of it anyway.
It’s funny, when I read this:
I couldn’t help but flip every word in that last bit to test against my own identity, because the rest of it rang hauntingly true. I’m only just now starting to question whether I have a trans identity, but perhaps it may indeed be something I might be able to express within some sort of dominant sexuality that includes that part of me. It’s all very confusing, but I appreciate you showing how it can *be* confusing.
by Asher
17 Jun 2011 at 23:23
OK. I am not sure we are going to come to an understanding. I think our communication styles are too different, at least over the internet.
1. I STILL don’t understand the point of the racialized metaphor. I think it’s a bad idea, doesn’t come across well, and is problematic to use.
2. I understand that the post is not “about” TransMission and that you are not “dissing” my party. I am pissed about what you are saying because I am pissed about what you are saying. Full stop.
3. I am still bothered by the fact that it doesn’t seem to occur to you that trans people might want to be represented in the erotic art in play spaces, that non-binary trans people might want to be represented, that some of us trans people might not really care what type of cis people (men or women, dom or sub) are on the walls, because they’re all fucking cis people anyway.
If you can’t grok that, maybe we should get some coffee.
by maymay
17 Jun 2011 at 23:50
Okay, Asher.
I hear you. I’m sorry.
It absolutely did occur to me that all of the people you mention might want to be represented. That’s one reason why Male Submission Art includes trans people, for example. I’m not sure what I did to give you the impression this didn’t occur to me, but for whatever it was, I’m sorry about that, too. :(
I can grok that, but I would still like to get some coffee together. I’ll be in Portland, OR all next week, but back on the evening of the 27th. I think we can probably find some time that week, or the week after. I’ll send you an email to this effect so we have a private communications channel to set that up if you want to pursue it.
by A. Nony. Mouse
18 Jun 2011 at 08:37
Thank you for responding to some of my questions/comments. I do hope you realize, though I may not have been as clear as I should have been due to also working on the HTML links, the comments about a “conspiracy” were said tongue in cheek. Also, in your opinion they are ignorant. In mine, they are rhetorical devices to somewhat humorously point out that perhaps there are other ways of looking at a situation, aside from your own.
Of course I am probably wrong (not having five different websites to link to with my writing does seem indicative of one’s ability to hold the moral high ground), in which case, I agree we truly have nothing more to say, as I tend to react against what I perceive as angry verbose activists with a “lighten up Francis” type mentality. Not because I do not think what they are doing is not noble or indeed needed, but in my own experience, being silly and less angry makes one more approachable and more prone to conversation with others.
Have an enjoyable time in Portland! I hope to someday visit myself. Well, not actually visit myself, but I hope you can unpack that sentence :)
by maymay
18 Jun 2011 at 15:17
I do hope you realize, A. Nony. Mouse, I’ve had the “you’re being a loony conspiracist” trope unironically thrown at me often, and so I don’t find it funny, I find it grating.
I get that. My point is I think your viewpoint(s?) here is wrong. Period. As in, it does not reflect reality, it reflects your perception.
That’s not funny either. I don’t work on several different websites to claim a “moral high ground” and I don’t appreciate the implication, whether a joke or not, that I do.
I tend to react to people who approach me with “a ‘lighten up Francis’ type mentality” feeling like I’ve not been heard, and having just found myself on the other side of a similar exchange with Asher, above, I find it remarkable that this is not obvious to you. So when someone tells me to “lighten up,” what I hear is, “what you’re angry about isn’t actually as big a deal as you are making it out to be,” which, frankly, is hurtful and makes me more angry, so if you hope to soften my attitude, you might want to rethink your approach.
If you want me to lighten up, send me more links to Link and Zelda cosplay because those make me smile, but do it somewhere else because this space is for discussions about the pieces I write.
Also, you’re welcome to tell me, if it’s true, that I’m expressing myself too angrily for you to feel safe listening. Tell me, if it’s true, that my anger makes you too uncomfortable to stay and talk. That’s fine; you have a right to make a personal safety call as much as I have a right to be expressively angry. In which case, you can go away and stay away from my blog. Because there aren’t enough angry submissive-identified people out there and I’m so fucking over being nice.
As an aside, another thing I think I should write about so more people understand me is why I’m an “angry” activist. I hinted at this before:
But I should write more about that one day and this sentence is a note to myself reminding me to do so.
Thanks, I hope I will. And yeah, I unpacked that fine. The reason I don’t find your humor lighthearted or “silly” is because I find it demeaning. So here’s me making a safety call: leave another comment with what I feel is even 1 demeaning remark about my intent, character, or intelligence and it will not survive the moderation queue.
by A. Nony. Mouse
18 Jun 2011 at 17:25
I’m sorry you feel I was demeaning your intent or character; that was actually not my intent.
You’ve made demeaning remarks about my character, intellect, and intent, so I highly doubt this last comment will see the light of day.
I truthfully believe a light-hearted and humorous approach to difficult topics is grossly underutilized, and in my personal experience with delicate and frustrating subjects have found humor gets me further than frustration.
So, to close, I do wish you well. Sincerely. But as has been the case with many commenters throughout this thread, I am out of here. Attempting to discuss things with you in a manner that you do not permit (i.e. using humor rather than exceeding academic verbosity) is tiresome, grating, and in all honesty makes me unsure of what you hope to accomplish insofar as having an open dialogue with people who are not exactly like-minded as you.
Take care.
by maymay
18 Jun 2011 at 18:22
All right, let’s turn this around:
I’m sorry you feel the way you do. See, that’s a great non-apology. Admittedly, actual apologies are hard. I screw them up sometimes, too; I’m afraid I screwed my own up to Asher when I was on the other side of the coin in this very thread, but that’s for Asher—and not me—to judge.
That’s nice, and irrelevant. This is not about your personal experiences or belief systems for so many reasons, not least of which is you have actively claimed anonymity to avoid invoking them here! You’re welcome to anonymity, of course, but you won’t then convince me your personal beliefs somehow trump mine. You wanna talk personal experience? Okay, let’s. But claim an identity before you engage me with those arguments.
Thank you. Sincerely.
So long…
…and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Trying to ding me for not being open to discussing things with people who are not like me while simultaneously citing my anger as an excuse for you to avoid talking with me because that’s not how you prefer to discuss things is one level of hypocrisy. But trying to ding me for that while also citing my anger as an excuse to avoid “having personal information about [you] used” and for not considering personal information about you as part of your arguments? That’s exactly the kind of mind-bending hypocrisy this post references!
If you can’t see that, then, for my own sake, I’ll just rescind the invitation to discuss personal experiences with you in the first place.
So if you do come back, I’d be pleased to see you do it with a face and a real name and some “accomplishments” of your own. Until you do, you’re just another piece of stop energy on whom I’ve already wasted more time than I arguably should have.
by Stabbity
18 Jun 2011 at 22:01
Whenever I hear someone tell an activist they’re too angry, I bristle. I’ve heard that a lot on feminist blogs, and I have yet to see it actually mean ‘I’m concerned that your attitude may push your potential allies away. What I have heard it mean is ‘your anger makes me uncomfortable’, and ‘my comfort level is more important than your frustration about being treated badly’.
Also, angry activists are important. I read a really interesting article which I wish I could credit for this idea, but I don’t remember enough of the details to find it again. The author’s argument was that loud, angry activists are great at raising awareness of issues because they’re loud, angry, and hard to ignore. Once people are aware of the issue, they start paying attention to the more moderate activists too. Then angry activists serve another purpose by making the moderate activist’s demands look relatively minor compared to the sweeping changes more extreme activists want. Once people start thinking ‘okay, that guy’s a little out there, but that other guy isn’t really asking for so much’, it’s easier to get the things that ‘that other guy’ is asking for.
by A. Nony. Mouse
18 Jun 2011 at 22:50
@stabbity: When I say “I see anger,” I mean “I find your passion really awesome, but it is something that can and perhaps has pushed others away due to feeling unsafe about voicing their opinions/viewpoints which, while not yours, have a space however small in the discussion.”
I agree that angry activists are important. However, I feel that anger should be used as a tool to channel that passion, rather than the end all be all of that passion.
@stabbity: Thank you for bringing up that it is important to make a distinction, and I should have made my reasoning more clear.
by maymay
18 Jun 2011 at 23:13
I think you’re referencing Greta Christina here, Stabbity. I linked to her post, “Good cop, bad cop: Atheist Activism” in one of my earlier responses to A. Nony. Mouse in this thread. And you’ve perfectly explained why I did that. Thanks. :)
Another thing I’m learning more recently about “angry” activism versus more “polite” activism, is that it, too, faces an image problem (much like how I described femdom’s “image problem”, which I also linked to in an earlier comment) that creates a self-selecting pool of people who collectively discourage antagonism as a valid change agent.
I think it works like this: angry activists rock the boat, which may or may not get people to change their behavior, but if they do change their behavior they’re more likely to do so quietly and beneath-board, meaning there’s no public acknowledgement of the angry activists’ role, which makes an angry activist’s successes less visible (and we already know what having zero positive representation does to a group of people), which then perpetuates the idea that angry activism is “not effective,” or perhaps “not as effective as other styles of activism.”
I’m not certain, but my own anecdotes all seem to support this theory. Being greeted by a Kink, Inc. exec who clearly knew who I am is just one example that there absolutely were conversations over what I’d written about them even if the company never publicly acknowledged what I wrote. Of course, other times, companies are simply forced to publicly acknowledge this sort of thing, but they obviously prefer to put some spin on it.
So I’ve found the whole idea that being angry “doesn’t work” to be a load of crap. It very clearly does. But that being said, there does seem to be an inverse relationship between getting publicly acknowledged for making change and going about your change-making in a way others view as “being angry.”
I think one can correctly claim that I, as an “angry activist,” will not get much (or at least, as much) love or public acknowledgement from the community’s/company’s insiders for what I do. However, to use that as an argument saying “being angry is not effective” is just a hasty generalization.
What this seems to suggest is that if you care only about results and not about any credit, and you’re angry, then being the bad cop may be just as effective as being the good cop. However, if you care about results and credit, you’re better off being the good cop, because the bad cop won’t get as much credit as the good cop will.
And this gets really tricky, because I care more about results than credit, but I care about credit a little bit, too. Mostly, I care about credit because credit and recognition is more likely to earn me a place at the table (so to speak) so that I can get more results. That’s called having a VIP reputation and it’s kind of a fucked up thing in itself, but it seems to be how things work, especially in subcultures where one’s reputation and social ties to an elite ruling class is a strong currency, which has long been true of the BDSM Scene. (See also: The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman, 1970.)
I’m not sure what this means for me, yet, but it’s good to realize. So, now that I do, it’s something I’m going to start factoring into how I approach situations where I want to instigate change. And I thought it would be worth posting about here because it is similar to a discussion about whether “the bus driver” or “the gadfly” is an appropriate style of activism, and where to use one over the other.
Also, I should probably add that, on a personal note, I really like other activists’ “styles” because I think “it takes all types” is as true for activism as it is for sex-positivity generally. (Yay diversity!)
So if you’re not an angry activist, that’s not only cool, that’s great and may actually be one reason why I might want to collaborate with you. But should we collaborate on any BDSM-related projects, please understand that I’m probably going to be a better “bad cop” than a “diplomat” (at least for the time being), and I’d like you to respect the validity and effectiveness of that role, too. Thanks.
by lalouve
19 Jun 2011 at 02:09
As an angry activist (mostly in feminism) myself, I have seen this argument so many times, and it’s still as fucking annoying. Quite apart from persoal activism, which is a case of ‘if you want to do humourous low-key activism, be my guest,’ the attacks on angry activism is part of the problem against which we fight.
Attacking angry activism happens in a power dynamic where the person attacked is not only informed that anger is not working, not useful, or frightens others away from activism, but where the activist is told, essentially, what they may say and do. Thus, attacking angry activism is done from a perspective that says that the activist is (surprise) subordinate to those supporting the status quo, and thus can be told how to act. This makes, in my book, angry activism from an oppressed or subordinated person an act of resistance in and of itself, regardless of whether it ‘works’ in any other sense. Angry activism from a woman, a submissive man, a person of colour, a transperson, or any other member of this kind of group, says ‘I do not accept your decision of how I may act.’ This is sometimes just as important as what we are actually saying.
Being an angry feminist is for me also about reclaiming my right to my anger, even when, and perhaps especially when, it makes men uncomfortable. It sends the signal that I will not accept my subordination, nor will I cater to the need for my oppressors to hear about their oppression only in the most honeyed and reasonable terms.
by Stabbity
19 Jun 2011 at 12:27
@maymay – sweet, that is indeed the article I was thinking of. It was nice to have a chance to re-read it. Next time I’ll have to read your comments more closely instead of skimming because I’m sleepy :)
To expand a little on the last point Greta Christina makes in that article, that telling other activists what to do is a waste of time better spent doing your own style of activism, I’d question whether it’s actually a bad thing to scare people off of your blog/away from your particular flavour of activism.
Another blogger I really enjoy, Havi Brooks, wrote an especially lovely post about finding your ‘right people’. Havi happens to be awesomely, kooky (she has a duck for a business partner, it’s just adorable), and has been told that she should tone it down or people won’t want to work with her. The core problem with that is the assumption that she wants to work with people who don’t enjoy her unrestrained Havi-ness. It’s easier for everyone involved if people who aren’t right for her notice that right away and go work with someone else.
Now, a person could try to twist the ‘right people’ argument into meaning that it’s fine for new people to feel totally unwelcome in the scene (‘they wouldn’t have fit in anyway’, etc), but I think cutting people off from the one subculture that might make them feel okay about their sexual desires is very different from scaring people off of one blog out of many.
by Annie
21 Jun 2011 at 17:45
I just stumbled across this post and, wow, what you’ve written has really resonated with how I felt going to a BDSM club for the first time a couple of months ago. I was so hoping it would be a place filled with people interested in, well, alternative sexuality. Instead, it was the same old, same old–almost all subs were women, all women were scantily clad (while nearly all men were fully clothed), and the decor included ’70s-looking “lesbian” porn (i.e. thin, white, large-breasted women spanking each other). What a disappointment! I’m glad to know I’m not the only one disillusioned with the scene and I’ll definitely be reading through your website.
by Jason
08 Jul 2011 at 07:45
May,
A fascinating and informative discussion maymay! Thanks for the links to derailing for dummies, certain to be a life-changing read. I acknowledge the fact that I am a member of many classes with privilege. Becoming aware of and avoiding using tactics used to derail and further marginalize people will enable my future discussions to perhaps come to fruitful, meaningful conclusions.
Pingback
by On Letting The World Burn « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed
16 Jul 2011 at 01:53
[…] man, dominant woman, what have you—are not served by having Scene-State figureheads at all; I’ve been documenting entrances when I should’ve been documenting exits! I’m too visible, acrid, and incorporeal to […]
Pingback
by I know — it’s been coming for some time. « Σαφικος Σοφια
05 Sep 2011 at 01:13
[…] day to be like Daniel Goleman’s tale of a bus driver mentioned by maymay in his post “The Bus Driver and The Gadfly” — something I was glad to have put in words much better than I could have expressed […]
Pingback
by On Being Bondage Furniture « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed
04 Dec 2011 at 16:10
[…] I least want to; Cookie’s, C’s, countless other women I’d seen bottom, their partners’, the privileged shits, like Cookie’s dom, who thinks I’m “like an annoying five year old†ask…. They were there, all of them, a composite in ghoulish form with that sick, molting flesh and that […]
by Linds
13 Jan 2012 at 11:43
And this is why I stick to the Exiles events. Slightly more catty lesbian drama, slightly less weird assumptions about power dynamics.
by shirley
13 Mar 2012 at 18:22
I’m glad you could be accomplishing this work. i understand queer and “women and trans†kink spaces best, but individuals could absolutely use a lot more welcoming, friendly, boundaried people to greet and assistance partygoers. in addition, it looks just like a beneficial way for somebody who is not actively playing to even now take part in the party. I frequently remain dwelling from perform celebrations for the purpose that there is certainly no method of connecting with citizens if I really do not play, which I frequently don’t.
Pingback
by In Which I Foreshadow a Larger Work « Bloggity Blog Blog Blog…
01 Dec 2012 at 10:43
[…] animals. She’s happy to chow down on some delicious ribs or a turkey sandwich as long as you don’t remind her that what she’s eating used to be an adorable living […]
Pingback
by tumblr backups
20 May 2013 at 04:14
[…] Many people often get very (and I do mean very) angry at me for using tools like analogy and bisociation to make legible various forms of oppressions (“-ismsâ€) that they do not often understand. For instance, there seems a large contingent of the trans* community (as though “the trans community†were a monolith, which is false, of course) that seems endlessly frustrated with me for my attempts to raise awareness of sexism and its intersection with domism by borrowing from trans ex…. […]